DL Electrical Engineering - Just to Learn, Degree not Needed

[Originally posted on a.d.l which seems to have died]


I've got the itch to start learning again. I'm 41 yrs. old, have a chemistry degree (traditional college) and am well ensconced in my job and career as a process control engineer. However, as much as I enjoy my job I feel that intellectually I am withering on the vine.

I've been dabbling in some home and un-official work projects that have been involving electronics and I have been getting frustrated at my lack of EE knowledge for seemingly simple stuff. This set me thinking about taking course which has led me here, after spending about 15 minutes building a kill list (Jesus - what a mess).

I don't care about a degree. Well, it would be nice but I have a BS already and this is not what I am after. My problem is that I travel about the US and occasionally internationally just about every week.

I want to be able to take a *rigorous* series of classes, stuff that I can do at my own pace (I am so so busy that there will be periods of several weeks where nothing can be done - but I also spend a lot of time in airports/planes and hotels which is prime study habitat) and send in when completed. I would expect to take basic physics and calculus again just to get going (hey - I've been out of school since '82 and haven't used one bit of what I learned.)

Cost, while of course is a factor, is maybe less of a factor than what most in the DL environment are looking for.

I want the intellectual equivalent of a BS in EE, without the electives. Just hard science and math. I know it's tough for something like this without labs and such but what are the opinions of this ng's denizens as to the feasibility of my quest? Of course any recommendations would be gratefully received.

 

The engineering is a very elusive topic in the distance format, and more so at the BS level, but you can find interesting choices however.

One of them, and the only one that is RA that I know, is at the University of Florida, that offers BS and MS in electrical engineering. I remember about reading on their web page (sorry, I have not the URL) that first classes would being offered Spring 2001. It was a very nicely shaped concept, using web casting of audio and video to deliver the lectures. I think that Haniph Latchman is the program director, and his e-mail is [email protected].

The other option at the BS level I know is not RA but is DETC: California National University. This should be less of an issue to you, since you already have a (RA, I presume) BS. They offer programs in electrical, enviromental, mechanical and QA engineering, at BS and MS level. URL is www.cnuas.edu

At the Master level, there is a much broader panorama. I think that the best programs are to be found at the University of Alabama (bama.disted.ua.edu) and University of North Dakota (www.dis.dpi.state.nd.us). I really prefer the Alabama courses. What I am saying? I swear for them. Well, I really like the program, and the courses are excelent. I took Fluid Mechanics and Project Management using their Quest program, and it rocks.

Another option could be Colorado State, that to my knowledge offers MS in electrical, environmental and chemical engineering. I think the URL is www.colostate.edu. And, never the one to fear, there is the Instituto Tecnologico y de Estudios Superiores de Monterrey, a long name for one of the finest educative institutions at Mexico. I think ITESM program is not RA accredited (although I could be wrong, because they hold RA for their administrative programs) but as I have said, they are recognized by Mexico government, and there is not doubt that they are one of the top notch universities in Mexico. URL is www.ruv.itesm.mx

And then, there is always the "do it yourself", that perhaps may be interesting to you. You can use a program from any university as a model, and then take off or in classes that are interesting for you and your objectives. I would recommend that you fetch the help of somebody who really knows about your intended field of study. I made my own program in environment sciences, and I used my boss as an assessor -he is a very nice person when he is not bitching. Then using your program as a guide, you can go shopping the myriads of options for courses in the web, selecting those that appeal more to you in terms of content, method and cost. You can even earn a degree from it

I hope this is useful for you. By the way, it is kind of funny but I also work in the control and automation field, with a computer and electrical background, and want to move over to environmental issues. Sort of the reverse of what you are planning!

Regards,
Aaron

 

I guess that you already know that ABET
won't accredit any undergraduate
engineering programs without supervised hands-on labs. (I agree with them on that.)

There may be a few RA but non-ABET distance engineering programs, but I don't know of any. There are a couple of RA distance EET programs I think, but I have no details.

Check out something that calls itself
the California National University of
Advanced Studies in LA. They do distance education BSEE's. http://www.cnuas.edu

CNUAS is accredited by DETC, a recognized accreditor which seems less fastidious about the labs than do the regional accreditors. DETC has far less clout than regional accreditation, but if you just want the education and don't really need a degree, they may be a viable choice for you. The IEEE may look down its nose at it, but it certainly isn't a degree mill. You will need to be very sure that you never will need to transfer the DETC credits into a regionally accredited program though, as that is often difficult.

Another option for you is to simply take individual courses from a number of providers. Many universities offer individual distance engineering courses even though they don't offer entire distance engineering degree programs.

 

Jeff,

Disclaimer: This information is supplied without regard to graduate programs, regional/DETC accreditation, ABET accreditation or transferability to RA schools, because you indicated you were not looking for a degree. I would have given a different response otherwise.

To get where I think you want to be, I recommend splitting your program into three parts:

1. The groundwork - You have correctly identified this as calculus and physics. If you truly want to understand at the level of a BSEE, you will want to take post-calculus math including differential equations. If you study well independently, you can dig up your old textbooks with some Schaum's Outlines for problem sets. If you need the impending weight of a final exam looming in the future to motivate you to study, you can take a challenge exam at your local community college or university for about $40-60 when you feel you've learned a particular subject. This gives you closure and the metric of an independent evaluation of your knowledge.

2. The electronics - A convenient way to learn this is to take one of the non-degree courses at Cleveland Institute of Electronics ( http://www.cie-wc.edu ). Their program is broken down into booklets each of which takes about a week to study through and test out of, and some work with a breadboard and components and a DVM. One of their courses includes microcontroller projects. Other leading electronics correspondence school is Grantham at http://www.grantham.edu and Harcourt Direct at http://www.harcourt-learning.com . You can follow this up with a subscription to Popular Electronics, Radio Electronics, Nuts and Volts, or QST magazine and occasionally build a featured project.

3. The arcane, upper-level engineering subjects - This is what differentiates an engineer from a technician, and includes electromagnetics, transmission lines and networks, nature and property of materials, statics, thermodynamics, modern physics, semiconductor physics, and others. If you look at several colleges' curriculums, you'll see how an engineer is typically trained and what coursework you'll need to cover in order to satisfy you own requirements. For these courses, you can go to your local university's bookstore and purchase the textbook they use (and of course the corresponding Schaum's Outline), work through the course, and then optionally take the challenge exam.

Another option is to enroll in Unisa ( http://www.unisa.ac.za ), which is a large correspondence school out of Pretoria, South Africa. There you can either pursue a bona fide degree or take courses a la carte, receive grading on periodic assignments, but you must appear for a comprehensive final exam at one of seven exam centers in the U.S.

Mark A. Sykes, who's brother is also named Jeff and he's an electrical engineer and therefore I'm the authority on answering this question.

 

Why not try MIT lecture notes for FREE since you are only interested in "intellectual equivalent" of B.S.E.E. All of MIT's coursework is now available online for FREE (at www.mit.edu).

Thanks.

Ike Okonkwo

 

Many professors post the syllabus, notes, homework assignments (and answers), tests and exams on their class website. Here is a list of courses at Stanford: http://www.stanford.edu/var/dir.classes.html

One example course (the only one I looked at) is here: http://www.stanford.edu/class/ee246/

This was nearly the first hit on google looking for ::circuit theory syllabus::

With an afternoon of searching, you could construct a complete degree program from a mix of the best universities. (I did this as an exercise long ago for a math degree and posted it on AED as an argument against unaccredited degrees.)

 

Mark,

Where are the seven exam centers? The Unisa website only lists five:

Los Angeles
New York
Chicago
Washington
Oklahoma

The closest of these is still very far away, so I'd be very interested to know of other possibilities.

Thanks,

Alex

 

Dear Mark,

Greetings!

I think that your assumption is incorrect. UNISA is not a distance education institution; rather, it is a residential university with a distance learning wing. I remember asking on alt.education.distance if UNISA was also residential and the response was, "Yes, UNISA is a residential university". Aaron Rivacoba Bohorquez was one who corroborated this to me. In this sense, UNISA resembles ULondon which also has a distance learning wing.

Best regards,

Karlos Alberto "Caballero" Lacaye
[email protected]

 

>>One of them, and the only one that is RA >>that I know, is at the University of >>Florida, that offers BS and MS in >>electrical engineering. I remember about
First off - thanks to everyone who replied, all of them obviously thoughtful and time consuming. I may not reply to each but to Aaron, Bill(s), Ike, Mark, Alex, et al, thanks so much.

Now, about UFL: Wow! A very very intriquing program. http://www.fcd.ufl.edu/programs.asp

However, it isn't in place yet (no rush - I am just starting to explore all this). Another thing is that it seems that they are going to require a DL student to follow the timetable of a full-time student. That is the impression I get. It seems you have to have the 15 or so credit hours/semester. This just would not work for me, I can't have that much work. I would be able to handle 1 or 2 course/semester, 1 per summer-type semester if available.

I will write though and ask their thoughts on it. If it can be slowed down a bit, man it looks good. They are saying (in the proposal http://www.list.ufl.edu//online/alnbs.htm} *all* the right things. Even about running the labs over online simulators (EE lends itself very well to this) and occasionally home obtained test equipment.

One missing thing (hugely missing) is the suggest course regimen starts at the junior year. What about all that stuff leading up to it? There has to be more than what they list.

>>The other option at the BS level I know is >>not RA but is DETC: California National >>University. This should be less of an issue

Yes, the goal is just to learn but there is in the back of my mind that why not make it a degree? I don't want to take just a plain old technology battery of courses, I want the real thing (in terms of content). However, if I can get the Real Thing that would not lead to a degree I would be satisfied with that, I think. CNU didn't seem to offer too much to see online. Just that they offer a "BS in Engineering".

>>At the Master level, there is a much >>broader panorama. I think that the best

There is a ton of graduate stuff out there. It's the undergrad thats tougher to find it seems.

>>And then, there is always the "do it >>yourself", that perhaps may be interesting ??to you. You can use a program from any >>university as a model, and then take off or

I was initially leaning that way, and the eventual MIT release of their stuff would be a great guideline, but I need the "formal" atmosphere to drive me on and finish things. It is a lot easier to get things done when you have a structure than a free form type routine, even if following a published routine. I think I would need the routine assignments, interaction, so on, to move along on a continuous basis. Without it I may put things away for a month and never get anywhere.

 

What might ABET be? I certainly can understand that position.

 

That is definitely a must. I don't think the local comm. college really has anything of significance, perhaps a freshman physicis and calc class, that would be about it.

Hmmm, I'm not sure that's exactly what I want. I get the impression I'd be skimping on some theory as it wouldn't be as nasty as a college level course. While I am sure they are good for training techs and such my sterotype of these places is just that - tech level knowledge. I want the real McCoy (although it was a lack of tech level knowledge that made me realize that I wanted to learn).

I checked their site out and I didn't like the fact that assignments are returned with the opportunity to correct mistakes. It is almost like they are giving out the answers.

There ya go, ideally that is what I would like to attain. I've had thermo already in my chemistry degree so I am familier with the intensity of it.

I checked the site out and aside from mentioning the DL bit on the home page I could find nothing at all mentioning it, let alone about the testing sites.

Impeccable credentials.

JG...

 

Ike:

They are just talking about it, a timetable of something like 2003-2011 is what I read on their site.

Sounds very interesting but who knows what will come out when it does?

JG...

 

The Accreditation Board for Engineering and Technology. They are the American professional accreditor for engineering, engineering technology, computer science and related programs.

ABET is a federation of 31 professional organizations united to form an accrediting association. For the purposes of electrical engineering, the relevant ABET member is the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers (IEEE), the national professional organization for electrical engineers.
http://www.abet.org

 

With a BS in physics and a minor in EE, I qualify for entry into most MSEE programs. I suspect that completing the 15-21 hours generally found in an EE minor at a nearby university, along with your chemistry degree, you would be able to enter a MSEE program - of which there are a number of good RA DL programs available. But, I realize you likely want the undergrad EE classes via DL.

Another approach for you may be via the EIT (Engineer in Training) program and exams. See, http://www.eitexam.com/ as an example. The EIT provides a comprehensive overview of undergraduate engineering. In a perverse way, I still enjoy taking out my EIT book every once in a while just to review and refresh on some topics. There are a number of colleges and private companies that offer a 15-week course (usually evenings) to review the EIT topics and prepare one for the exam. Contact the EE department at a nearby university to inquire about an EIT review class. This may even be taught over the Internet - but I haven't checked. I leave that as an assignment.

You may even be able to sit for the EIT exam but I seem to recall that, in certain states, one needs to be a graduate of an ABET program to do so.

After completing the EE minor coursework and EIT, you may also be able to sit for the PE (professional engineer) exam in EE. If they won’t let you sit for the exam, you should at least be able to attend a PE EE preparation course to gain some EE knowledge. Use a google.com search on "EE" "PE" "Test" to find sites and locations that offer PE exam test preparations. For example, http://www.conted.gatech.edu/courses/engineering_review/EE-105.html

Good luck,

Bob

 

I agree that these tech-level courses alone will leave a hole in your educational program. However, if you're supplementing them with the electromagnetics, t-lines, circuit analysis, etc. courses, you'll completely cover the theoretical underpinnings of what you practically study with CIE.

I think you should still consider the tech classes just for the completeness of having the real-world, practical, Harry the T.V. repairman training along with the more formal (and abstract) engineer's training. It makes a difference kinda like a second lieutenent up from tech sergeant on a field commission versus a six-week wonder out of OCS.

Oh, and there is a wonderful FAQ on alt.sci.electronics that you should get ahold of.

Mark A. Sykes

 

Alex,

My mistake, there are only five centers; I was typing faster than I was thinking. I remember that the distance to a testing center was a difficulty for you and I didn't mean to mislead you.

Mark A. Sykes

 

Karlos,

You are absolutely correct! It's probably my parochial thinking coming into play here, as Unisa is so far away that I sometimes only remember the external programs portion.

Mark A. Sykes, who has two assignments due this week to be sent to Unisa, and should have known that it's host to more than just distance learners.

 

Have a link Mark? All the sci.electronic.* faq's are the same: A lame how-to-search document.

 

Try this: http://www.repairfaq.org/ . To quote: "This site features Samuel M. Goldwasser's latest and greatest "Notes on the Troubleshooting and Repair of..." series of comprehensive repair guides for consumer electronics equipment and other household devices."

I recommend this FAQ because it gives lots of useful practical information on fixing something that's broken, which may not be something you'll learn in the course of your program. An engineer doesn't automatically make a good technician, because the diagnostic process does not use exactly the same skills as the design process. Therefore I mention this FAQ and the trade schools like CIE because I think they can be of benefit to you.

Mark A. Sykes

 

Ah, I've seen that one. A while ago I got the bright idea I could set the convergence of my big screen tv. Yeah right, I opened it up and the board had about 20 different geometries x 3 colors.

I had someone come in and it took them many many hours to do it, with a signal generator yet.

All the other faq's in the sci.electronics hive are nothing though. Surprising.

I've not been in this for so long, can an established schmuck like myself still get student load or is there means testing for these?