LLB at London, Wolverhampton, Nottingham Trent or Unisa?? comments please!

Narrowed down to these four....

I'm thinking about eliminating Unisa, due to the appearance that this is not a strict common-law country but a mix of civil, common-law, and african tribal traditional system. I sense that the delivery system leaves much to be desired also. The availability of student groups appears weak. I do like the price..about $1750/year, full course load

Wolverhampton divides courses/modules into a trimester system which increases the amount of testing, which intuitively decreased the impact of a weaker grade.

London, nuff said. I believe that one must avail themselves to the tutors outside of the program in inorder to be sucessful.

Nottingham Trent--More personal than London and Wolverhampton. Tutorial assistance beyond the course material, decent price?


Well, am I seeing this correctly? I invite comments and criticisms and appreciate your considerations.

Best regards,

madcow

 

This is not my area so this post is simply my off-hand thoughts. One consideration is whatever differences might exist regarding the areas of specialization the various schools offer and how this matches up with your own interests. The other has more to do with matching your learning style with the style provided by the school. It seems clear that you're on to that already. I'm not aware of any substantial difference in the "prestige factor" for these various schools so I can not comment on that but perhaps others will.
Jack

 

"madcow" ??? Now THAT'S an interesting screen name...

What do you intend to DO with your LL.B? Just personal interest or professional licensure or what?

 

Hi Madcow(?)

Just twopence worth. Nottignham Trent and Wolverhampton are seconds to London. Its delivery of the LLB has a long and distinguished record.

It is not clear what you mean by decreasing the 'impact of a weaker grade'. If you anticipate weak grades don't try for a law degree at a reputable university.

If to be 'successful' you need tutorial assistance then you had better factor that into your costs.

 

thanks....

Actually, Madcow has been a long standing alias from my youth...I was reared on a cow farm...my 4H friends pinned that one to me in about '77...

Why study law?

I have limited options regarding establishing myself at a ABA law school due to the requirements for full time first year study. Therefore an alternative route is needed. My first choice would be a ABA law school, but the rules would preclude my study.

I have two residences at the moment...one in Michigan (primary about 3/4 per year) and one in Alabama. My research into admission indicates that Alabama has allowed graduates of the previously mentioned schools, with the exception of Unisa, to sit for the bar. No additional ABA sanctioned education needed.

Michigan however, is more conservative. They will allow a foriegn graduate to sit the exam after the completion of a LLM at a ABA sanctioned law school. Michigan has no comity with other jurisdictions regarding admitted lawyers with education other than ABA sanctioned (either provisional or approved). With this in mind, Michigan will require the aforementioned LLM.

From my understanding, it is fairly common in at least a dozen states, to allow foreign graduates to sit after completion of a llm at a ABA sanctioned school. It is apparently a concern to the ABA since they have published a position statement against this practice.

My strategy is as follows:

1. complete the llb, and seek and gain admission into the Alabama bar.

2. Enroll in the LLM weekend program at Thomas Cooley Law School and finish in roughly 18 months.

3. Seek admission and be admitted to the Michigan bar.

4. Be an outstanding lawyer.


With regard to the "weaker grade" comment, it is not my intention to have a weaker grade. My preparation to this point has been rigorous and know the challenge that awaits. It seems that the Wolverhampton format less of a "all or nothing" feel to it since, it is divided into more modules than London or Nottingham.

Best regards,

madcow

 

Madcow,

Here is my $0.02

Have you looked into the distance learning program at Northumbria University? The have a pretty good distance learning law program. However I should warn you about their lack of good communication skills and this really scares me since excellent communication skills between a student their school is extremely important in the distance study of law. I requested an information package about the distance learning LLM from NU. I had to email then 3x to get the information. Finally 3 months after my first email I finally received the package. After reading over all the information they sent me I still had 2 unanswered questions. So I decided to email NU the questions and I got a reply from them almost a month later.

All the schools that you mentioned are good schools. However I think that if you want to practice law you will probably want a law degree that will be well respected by other lawyers in the US, so you're best choice would be U of London.

All the best 2u!!!
Bo

 

University of London all the way....

B.

 

Re: thanks....

Where did you find this information concerning Alabama? The Rules Governing Admission to the Alabama State Bar do not appear to accept a foreign llb as the requisite legal education. Rule IV, B. (2). The only option appears to pass the bar and practice for five years in a state that extends comity to Birmingham School of Law, Jones School of Law of Faulkner
University, and Miles College of Law graduates.

I would start the process with U of L by the end of the week if I thought I could qualify to take the Alabama bar. Did you find a way that I have not?

Kevin

 

I agree with your conclusions on Northumbria. I sent a email on December 2, 2003 with a reply on January 23, 2004. This eliminated them from consideration. Nottingham Trent was outstanding with a same day reply and package overnight by UPS...

 

Madcow,

I recommed that you rethink your attempt to use a D/L LL.B. as a Bar qualifying degree. When you evaluate what any state bar might accept, keep in mind that there may be a significant difference between acceptance of a foreign law degree where the holder is admitted to practice in that foreign county, a foreign LL.B. earned at a resident school and a D/L LL.B. Be careful here!

You should consider whether to pursue a California correspondence Bar qualifying JD, assuming you have at least 60 semester hours of University education. Such a degree would allow you to take the California Bar upon graduation. Once admitted there, after a varying amount of practice experience, you could seek licensure in about 20 other states.

Also, such a degree might qualify you to take an LL.M. from an ABA school, exactly as you would do with your LL.B.

Finally, the London program (I am registered in their LL.M. D/L program) won't cover an awful lot of specifically American law you will need to know for the Bar exam and for practice.

 

Re: Re: thanks....

Well for starters, I went to the ABA site below for the general information about foreign credentials, then verified through email, that the basic facts cited on the ABA site was correct. The process involves a evaluation for equivalency and a petition to the supreme court to sit for the exam.

http://www.abanet.org/legaled/publications/compguide/chart9.pdf

If what I have been told is correct, then I think this is the most efficient way to be admitted in my adopted home state. If not, then the DL/LLB combined with LLM and admission in Michigan is my alternative.

I would also like to say that Tennessee seems fairly reasonable. With an evaluation of your undergraduate transcript and a foreign LLB. Residency and a Tennessee practice must be established though. The folks at the Tennessee Supreme Court and the Tennessee Bar Association are the nicest folks that I have talked with in doing this research.

 

I hear you...and I appreciate your comments....I think this why many states require the LLM and maybe a LLM in comparative law would be the best program.

I understand that there is some risk here. I like the California plan, but I can't parlay that into a Michigan admission. Michigan uses the word "reputable" to describe non-ABA schools that it will accept as legal education. Research indicates that the Michigan Supreme Court defines a "reputable" as a with provisional ABA accpetance.

I do like like the results that Oak Brook and Nortwesterm Calif. are acheiving. Oak Brook results are often better than many ABA schools.

Thanks Nosborne, I've read alot of your posts, you help to keep it real.

madcow

 

I hear you...and I appreciate your comments....I think this why many states require the LLM and maybe a LLM in comparative law would be the best program.

I understand that there is some risk here. I like the California plan, but I can't parlay that into a Michigan admission. Michigan uses the word "reputable" to describe non-ABA schools that it will accept as legal education. Research indicates that the Michigan Supreme Court defines a "reputable" as a school with provisional ABA accpetance.

I do like like the results that Oak Brook and Nortwesterm Calif. are acheiving. Oak Brook results are often better than many ABA schools.

Thanks Nosborne, I've read alot of your posts, you help to keep it real.

madcow

 

Hi Madcow,

I'm a LL.B. student with the University of London and can highly recommend it to you. However, don't count on much interaction with the University on this one. If that is important to you, there are several "tutorial colleges" that provide tuition for students. I am not currently using any of these, but I think for next year I will use http://www.spr-law.com as I hear that they are very good.

As far as name recognition and prestige, you certainly won't get any better than the University of London for the LL.B. It is true though, that with it you won't be learning many of the subjects required for an American bar exam though. I think that the easiest solution to this would be to enroll in a LL.M. program for foreign lawyers.

I am planning on using my LL.B. to get admitted to practice law in the USA as well. I'm currently looking to enroll with the LLM program from St. Thomas in international taxation (the only ABA distance learning program), unless any better options come up in the near future. I realize that I will need to do some serious study on American law subjects before I can plan on actually passing any state bar though.

I also looked at the possibility of enrolling with one of the D/L California approved schools, prior to choosing London. After some serious research though, it appeared that this was not the best option for me though.

*First of all, comparing reputations, I don't believe that anyone would question that the London degree beats any of the D/L California degrees.

*Second, one has to consider the financial aspects of the degrees. The cheapest California D/L degree will cost you about twice as much as the London degree, and the California degrees go up in price rather rapidly from there.

*Third, from my research, it appears that the state of California is willing to grant London graduates three years of credit toward California's four year requirement of correspondence credit AND also are willing to allow these graduates to enroll in any of the California D/L schools to make up this final year, allowing them to sit for the bar exam. This would give the student both an internationally respected LL.B. and a California bar qualifying J.D. degree.

The main argument against this route though is that your odds of passing an American bar exam would be greater if you were studying the subjects for four years, as opposed to one though.

The foreign LL.B. will provide you with many other options in other states though, providing you complete some courses from an ABA school (this varies by state). A large percentage of states make exceptions for foreign graduates, many of which do not exist for graduates of unaccreditted law schools. It pays to do your research though, and best of luck to you whatever you choose. If I can be of any assistance, please don't hesitate to ask.

 

Be careful of tutorial colleges.
Following complaints we found one locally that was offering external London degree training and degrees from an American university that turned out to be a company formed by the local college with no more than a virtual office in the US

 

Be careful of tutorial colleges.
Following complaints we found one locally that was offering external London degree training, and degrees from an American university that turned out to be a company formed by the local college with no more than a virtual office in the US

 

Re: Re: Re: thanks....

Do you intend to petition the state Supreme Court before you begin this process?

 

I am impressed with Dude's analysis. One caution, though. Some (many?) states will allow the holder of a foreign law degree to take their Bar if they earn any LL.M degree from an ABA school. Others, however, require that LL.M. curriculum to comprise particular courses in American law. The St. Thomas tax LL.M. won't meet this requirement.

There are a growing number of LL.M. programs catering to foreign law graduates. These appear to be designed to meet the Bar requirements. As always, check first!

Most LL.M. programs are at private, and therefore very expensive, law schools. When counting up the cost of going the foreign law degree route, one should take this into account.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: thanks....

You need to finish your education prior to petition of the supreme court.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: thanks....

Seems risky to go through the time, effort, and expense without knowing for certain.