Gaining a Phd in order to Teach at College Level

I am trying to get my foot in the college education door, unfortunately I do not have the capability to go to a full-time/campus Phd program.

I was wondering if anyone had any insight on distance learning/online Phds and how universities view them when evaluating a faculty candidate. A few professors I have talked to say that top tier research universities (Auburn, UF, Va Tech, UVA, etc.) would not likely hire someone with an online degree. Although I do not expect to get hired by one of these schools right off the bat, I prefer to keep all options open throughout the rest of my career.

Also, does it make more sense to get a Phd in Higher Education or a Phd in what I plan on teaching: Business (or even a DBA).

Thanks!
Dave

 

"Who Accepts What" would be a terrific dissertation project, if you do go on for a Ph.D. It is surprising to me how little we know, other than anecdotal evidence, in the important matters you ask about.

With "foot in the door" in mind, don't neglect the community college system, where in many, perhaps most, situations, a Master's (or even a Bachelor's) is enough. As I've mentioned here, my wife got her current community college teaching job in spite of her Ph.D., not bec ause of it. In the California community college system, a Ph.D. in philosophy cannot be used to teach philosophy, since philosophy is taught in the humanities department. So it is her MA in humanities from Dominguez Hills that got her the job. But (look, it's anecdotal evidence again) her community college job is clearly (for her) a stepping stone. She was approached to teach, and has been teaching, in the residential program of the University of St. Francis (the Illinois school that offers degree programs in many cities around the country).

 

What type of school do you want to teach at? Community College? RA University, AACSB University?

There are several out there - I will only comment on the AACSB ones, since that is what I went with.

Grenoble has a part time - once a year residence program - part time. I am in this program.

Henley has one as well. Case Western has one, but it requires a visit every 4 weeks for 3 years. Drexel has one, but it requires 9 months on campus for the first year - not really DL.

I have info on Grenoble, if you want it. The program is delivered in english. Let me know and I will PM you.

 

Community Colleges are...

often seen as a stepping stone. However, you can, and people do, have rewarding careers teaching at community colleges. As John pointed out, you can teach part time in a schools business program with a masters degree and can use that as a stepping stone to something full time. Then you can obtain the doctorate to advance your career. With the shortage of business PHD's right now it might be a good time to ease into a CC's business program with a masters.

 

The Community colleges in my area have not posted a full time or part time position for business in over 3 years.

 

The CC's in my area...

have never ever posted a professor job for anything that I have seen. Their hiring practices are very informal. Somebody recommends someone they know for an adjunct position and when someone full time is needed they hire from their part time staff. A review of the catalog will reveal the vast majority of the CC professors in our area are masters degree graduates of our local regional state universities.

 

Re: The CC's in my area...

So unless you are neighbors, friends, or relatives of faculty, you are out of luck? How sad!

 

An accredited degree is normally recognized by all the accredited universities regardless of its delivery form (online/oncampus). However, academics from on-ground universities tend to look down at online degrees because some of them think that you are buying the degree or because most of them spent 5 years full time getting one.

The best way is to find yourself a job as a part time faculty with your MBA, then try to look for a full time job as a lecturer that normally doesn't require a PhD. Once you have the job as a lecturer, if you finish your PhD the university would need to upgrade you as an assistant professor since you have a PhD from an accredited university. Once you have experience as an assistant professor from one university, you can easily find another one at another university given your present position.

The idea is to get hired based on your present MBA (assuming that your MBA is from a reputable and traditional university) and then use your PhD only for promotion. If you try to find a tenure
track job after finishing your online PhD, then you should expect a lot of difficulties since business faculties recieve a high number of applications and online doctorates would have less of a chance compared to those graduated from traditional 5 year full time programs.

 

Finding that "foot in the door" position is going to be the hard part. In this area local CC's has frozen hiring of new faculty indefinitely due to state cash flow problems. HA. (so increase the tuition anyway)

Secondary education needs new blood as well as private schools, competition there may be less. Higher education has few openings and many aspirants. Good luck.

 

Re: Re: The CC's in my area...

Or, it might mean that you need to be a bit more proactive. Sending out blind resumes, requesting informational interviews as a way of making yourself known to those involved in hiring, etc. Sometimes it seems that the glass is half empty but try to remember that it's not entirely empty. There's always a way to do things.
Jack
(I know it's sappy but I still believe it)

 

I hate to tell you...

Kristie, but that is the way of the world. If you have ever attended any employment seminars they will stress the importance of "networking". Networking is short for hire those you know. I don't know you but you might not have a lot of experience if you don't know that by now. I have found the gen-x'rs are clueless about what it takes to get employed in a slow market. They are so used to the go-go 90's where just about anyone could get a job that they have "zero" networking skills. Family firms hire family, small local firms hire locals, big firms hire those who come from the same "elite" school groups. Any sociology class will tell you that we are most comfortable living and working with those most like ourselves. Community college faculty will be comfortable hiring those who come from the same background as they. Any career counselor will tell you the worst place to find a job is in the paper. Most jobs come from ones connections. Getting an adjunct position through a college buddy is what is known as "networking".....

 

Hi Dave,

The importance of where/how a candidate received a degree is largely up to the preferences/prejudices of the department chair/dean who recommends the candidate. I know of one dean of a college of education at a state university who said that he would never consider a Nova Southeastern PhD/EdD but that he would consider a Walden PhD/EdD. Go figure!

A doctorate in higher education from the University of Nebraska-Lincoln, for example, would likely not even raise an eyebrow, since it is a respected state university and most people do not know that one can get a DL doctorate from there. Institutions such as Walden, Capella, Jones International, etc. are known exclusively as DL universities and its graduates are subject to the prejudices of those who believe that learning at a distance is inferior.

Regarding a higher ed or business PhD, if you want to teach business at the university level, the candidate with a doctorate in business would generally be preferred over the candidate with a doctorate in higher ed. Although there are many, many faculty with education doctorates who are teaching in the field in which they received their masters (especially if their dissertation was done in that same field, e.g. a specialization in business education).

Tony Pina
Faculty, Cal State U, San Bernardino

 

Dr. Bear,

I was surprised to read about the situtation with Dr. Bear (Marina). I was full-time faculty at a CA community college for over seven years. The three philosophy faculty (two full-time) each had doctorates in philosophy. At this college, philosophy was taught in the Dept. of Social Sciences.

There are 107 community colleges in California and they are quite independent of each other (Unlike the California State University and University of California systems). I'm certain that my former institution would have welcomed your wife's philosophy Ph.D. with open arms.

Tony Pina
Faculty, Cal State U. San Bernardino

 

In California, community college teaching (especially full-time) is a really good "gig". Full-time faculty typically teach 5 classes (15 hours per week) each semester. I know several community college faculty with masters degrees who are making more than many of their university faculty peers with doctorates (I used to be one of them). At my old college, the current salary range is 34,500 (for an MA with no experience or additional coursework) to 77,675 (for a PhD with 15 years experience). Community college administrators make significantly more.

There is a very good registry service for Calfornia Community Colleges. It puts you on the e-mail/mailing lists of the different colleges that are recruiting for positions. I receive 1-3 flyers, e-mails each week.

http://www.cccregistry.org/jobs/index.aspx

Tony Pina
Faculty, Cal State U. San Bernardino

 

Re: I hate to tell you...

I think it is a problem with all, not just the Xers. I understand it is the way of the world, but seems more extreme at the community college level. The problem with sticking to one kind of people is there is no diversity in perspectives. I have made personal visits, e-mails, mail, HR, Dean's, Professor's - It took less time at the University, which seems backwards to me.

 

Re: Re: Gaining a Phd in order to Teach at College Level

Hmmmmm....a "lecturer" is a non-tenure-track position. An "assistant professor" is a tenure-track position". Both are distinct from "adjunct professor".

My impression is that what works for adjunct or even non-tenure track is very different from tenure-track.

 

Re: Re: Re: Gaining a Phd in order to Teach at College Level

Your impression may be correct. Some universities tend to favor their own internal candidates (i.e. adjuncts or lecturers that have been teaching for the institution) while others prefer to go after "fresh meat" from the outside.

At most of the colleges and universities where I have worked or attended, "adjunct faculty" is the preferred term for non full-time, non tenure track faculty. Cal State U. San Bernardino, where I currently teach, uses the term "lecturer" and "part-time faculty" as synonyms and does not use the term "adjunct" at all. I do not think that CSUSB has any full-time lecturers.

The term "adjunct professor" seems to be used most often by institutions that do not have any full-time faculty and rely upon faculty who work for other institutions to serve as instructors and/or advisors. I have seen this in catalogs from non-RA schools. The term "Professor" implies academic rank (e.g. Full Professor, as opposed to Assistant Professor). Adjuncts typically do not hold academic rank at the college or university. At CSUSB, all adjuncts have the rank of Lecturer. I have never heard of an "Adjunct Assistant Professor" or "Adjunct Associate Professor". People have introduced themselves to me as an "adjunct professor", but that tends not to be what their university calls them.

"Visiting Professor", rather than "Adjunct Professor" tends to be used for someone who is teaching temporarily at a different institution that the one in which she/he is regularly affiliated (e.g. teaching at another university during a sabbatical).

Tony Piña
California State U. San Bernardino

 

Getting a Teaching Slot

I had always thought getting a CC job was only open to those within the inner circle... until I got my job here in the Phoenix area. They didn't know me from Adam.... and hired from the interview and "micro teach" I did. The bottom line is it depends on the college and your committee members. If you are in a dead end trying to get in to a particular college, pick another one! As far as a doctorate is concerned it also depends... but at the CC level a doctorate to me (and I have been on many hiring committees) is ok, but not necessary. In fact, most doctorates tend to oversell the research angle... which is not relevant at a community college. I've come out of a few interviews asking, "Why the hell do they want to lower themselves by coming to a CC?" Of course, it isn't "lowering yourself" to come to a CC... I see it as a step up. Far less bravo sierra at a CC then at a university, IMHO. If you have a burning desire to be called "doctor evil" or whatever, get the doctorate AFTER you've been hired by a CC. I did it another way... I moved up the salary scale with an MA, Ed.S., and MBA... not a doctorate in the bunch. I just don't need a title... I already have one of those mail order minister certificates, so you can call me Reverend if you like...

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Gaining a Phd in order to Teach at College Level

Tony, I can't speak for the California schools - but it's a bit different east of the Mississippi - based on my experience and the CHE as well.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Gaining a Phd in order to Teach at College Level

Yes, my experience lies primarily in the West. Since "Professor" is usually a faculty rank (e.g. Assistant Professor then Associate Professor, then Professor), the term "Adjunct Professor" would imply that there could be an "Adjunct Assistant Professor" and "Adjunct Associate Professor". I have never heard the latter two used.

However, since titles such as "adjunct", "lecturer" and "part-time faculty" are not standardized across universities--especailly those in different parts of the country--I am prepared to believe that there are universities that use a variety of titles for their faculty.

Tony Pina
Faculty, CSU San Bernardino