Touro College-Probation Status

Hi everyone:

I came across another thread discussing Middle States Regional Accreditation and checked out the link. As I observed the link, I came across Touro College, NY which is the main campus for Touro University International and saw it was put on probation after their periodic review. Does anyone else know about this and the status? As a current TUI student it was a surprise to see. ThanksLink

 

Scorpio,

I can sympathize with your situation as I am an ACCS doctoral student.

As you probably know, schools can be put on Probation for a variety of reasons. I do not know what the deal is with Touro. It is not necessarily insurmountable. Liberty U several years ago was on Probation for having too much institutional debt. They overcame that (in large part due to a genreous benfactor who gave them $$$$$$$$$$$$$).

As someone in a regulatory agency, it depends on how seriously the institution takes remedying the problem. I have seen institutions (in my area of expertise...i.e. not Higher Ed) that have been placed on Probation and fumbled around (either due to ignoring the seriousness or just bungling) and went on to revocation. I have seen others that set to work and overcame problems and came into compliance with laws/regs and were removed from Probation.

Let us know what you find out. I know this is not at wonderful situation for you.

North

 

I was not able to come up with anything after doing a complete search beyond your link. It could be for a number of reasons, and one of them not being academic. It's really hard to say until the college comes out with a statement. The accreditation for your Ph.D program in CA flows through their NY branch.

I did refer a few friends to various DL schools for their MBA, and 2 of them applied at Touro International almost a month ago. They appeared to fit the academic standards required for the program, and the admission policy is that once all information is received you are to be informed within 24 hours. And everytime they inquire they are informed that they are still reviewing. Still I am sure it has nothing to do with the probation status.

Please, let us know what you find out. As the school has an excellent reputation, and it could be something related with the law or medical, or NY branch on some reason not related to academic of the CA branch at all. Remember few schools lose accreditation while put on probation. They are given guidelines to fix it, and schools take this very serious, and move toward the needed corrective action.

rnattorney

 

Touro and TUI

I emailed a rep at TUI inquiring of the above mentioned 'probationary' declaration of Touro. They responded the same day saying the Touro was asked to make changes that precipitated the change in accredidation, and that changes had been made.

A distinction was made that this was Touro, not TUI.

I'm well aware of the accredidation issues between the two. I'm also a PhD student at TUI.

Reggie

 

The official response from Touro

I also contacted TUI and this is the official response:

”Touro College was asked by Middle States to make several changes in some areas of its operations. Middle States’ Commission has provided guidelines to Touro College as to how to make these changes.

While on probation and making these changes, Touro College remains accredited by Middle States.

Touro College has complied with these guidelines, completed the required changes, and is submitting a report to Middle States. The report will be discussed in the next meeting of the Middle States’ Commission and we believe that the probation will be removed.”

They seemed quite confident that it will be resolved shortly. I am pretty sure that there is no reason for concern of any kind.

Eli

 

LOL!!!

Probation is a serious matter. It means there was a significant deficiency.

 

Distinction

It is interesting (amusing) that the Touro rep is claiming a distinction between Touro and TUI. When I contacted Middle States last year, I was told that TUI received its accreditation based on it being a branch campus of Touro College which was fully accredited at that time. If Touro College lost its accreditation which is unlikely, then TUI would also be out on the street so to speak.

 

Re: Distinction

this was my understanding as well. If Touro is affected TUI will automatically be affected. wonder why would the rep say otherwise. someone should send another email to TUI for this clarification.

rryan, what is the issue between the two ? TUI accreditation is based on Touro, is it not ?

 

Re: Distinction

Personally speaking, I think the "distinction" mentioned here is not related to the link between the main (TC) and its branch campus (TUI) rather that the probation is coming from Touro College not TUI.

It seems Touro College completed the required changes. They will submit the report to the Middle States shortly and the probation will be lifted.

Yes, a probation should not be taken lightly but it is not the end of the world and it does happen from time to time. If memory serves me right, California State University had some problems with its accreditation agency some time back. Same applies to Auburn University.

Eli

 

Touro probation

The most recent information is that Touro, not TUI did not have enough faculty for the Business School. This has since been remedied, and the next accreditation meeting in March will review the changes made. I also know that the B-school at TUI is not admitting any more students for now- don't know if this has anything to do with this situation, or if they are just being careful in light.

To me the probationary status was alarming, however the cause, it seems is not so bad. However I am concerned that TUI’s accreditation comes from Touro, as well as much of it’s reputation. The fact that there was a distinction made between the two in terms of affecting the institution’s accreditation standing was strange.

Reggie

etech- Although I'm a student at TUI, and have followed the sometimes never ending saga of TUI/Touro accreditation issues on this and other forums, I've never come to a final 'statement' of fact- especially by TUI adminstration. I am under that belief that TUI is a branch campus, and therefore derives it's accreditation from Touro. This recent 'probationary' period has raised some concern with TUI students.

 

Touro Situation

Hi all:

I wanted to follow up on the postings. I have also heard from TUI Administration and they emailed me that:

“Touro College was asked by Middle States to make several changes in some areas of its operations. Middle States’ Commission has provided guidelines to Touro College as to how to make these changes. While on probation and making these changes, Touro College remains accredited by Middle States. Touro College has complied with these guidelines, completed the required changes, and is submitting a report to Middle States. The report will be discussed in the next meeting of the Middle States’ Commission and we believe that the probation will be removed.”

The probation should be lifted soon. Also, TUI is a branch campus of Touro College and falls under the same accreditation as Touro College. It is like TUI is a satellite campus of Touro. All the schools:

Touro University College of Osteopathic Medicine
Touro University International
Touro College School of Health Sciences
Touro Law School
School Of General Studies
Lander College for Men and the other campuses in Queens, Manhattan, Brooklyn, and Long Island

I have heard fall under the overall accreditation. This is a big and growing college and I know they take RA seriously. I’m sure all will be satisfied at the next meeting

Concerning the waiting list to TUI Ph.D. Business Administration program, they have instituted a freeze on new applicants because the program has been growing at a huge clip. They need to bring on more faculty to satisfy the enrollment. They have added quality faculty very quickly and many on the Ph.D. students have assisted as teaching assistants to MBA programs. This is a compliment to the successful concept and quality of the school.

 

I guess they won't be going for AACSB soon, like some of us speculated, if they are having trouble with RA.

 

I don't think the two are related. AACSB accredited business schools have been placed on probation by their regional accreditors elsewhere. RA comes up for renewal every five years. When the regional accreditors want something changed (in this case, more B-school faculty for the main campus) they put the entire university on probation until the desired change is made. It's the only way the accreditors can enforce their will on schools.

This situation isn't affecting Touro's other specialty/professional accreditation for their other schools (e.g., their law school, medical school, physician assistant, and other programs). AACSB is just another specialty accreditation. As previously mentioned, this situation doesn't really reflect on TUI's business school -- mostly, on TC in New York.

Steve

 

You write as though you know something about this, but you don't. The Commission has many other tools (of graded severity) at their disposal. Probation is one of the "big sticks," second only to the "show cause" letter. Take a look at the Range of Commission Actions on Accreditation.

Personally I believe that Touro will come through the probation fine. But it seems unwise to pretend that probation is routine.

 

If the probation of Touro is related to the number of business instructors with the Touro, is this why my friends have not heard about their admission status within 24 hours for the MBA program as they state they will do.? Their replies from TUI have been vague, and state they are still reviewing. They are applying for the Spring of 2004, but have been accepted by other schools too. Their first choice was Touro, but if there is a problem of accepting applications at this time due to the probation, etc., they would have appreciated being informed of such.

Anyways, I have confidence Touro and TUI will come out of the probation fine. However, I am sure it can be slightly unsettling for students who have invested time and money in a program, and even ahave a tiny chance of having the regional accrediation put at risk. Especially when the probation is allegedly based upon something not with TUI. However, when the accreditation for the TUI program is based upon the Touro NY branch, it is a serious issue for all involved. Hang in there. I am sure all will be fine!

 

I checked with TUI and was informed that qualified MBA students are being admitted as we speak. Only the Ph.D. program is closed to new applicants because it reached its capacity.. as indicated in their web site:
http://www.tourou.edu/cba/phd.htm

Hope this helps,
Eli

 

Remember

TUI received its accreditation genetically through Touro College. A branch campus can automatically inherit its accreditation from the mother/father institution. TUI did not earn or work for its accreditation like NCU, Walden, Capella or NOVA did. NCU et al had to go through the entire accreditation process with no shortcuts. Since TUI did not earn its accreditation wings based on its own merits, the probationary status of the fountainhead of its accreditation is a concern to be taken seriously. Why did Touro College allow whatever the deficiency or problem was to reach the level of almost the last resort: probation?

 

I actually do know something of accreditation, having served as an on-site evaluator for two specialized accreditors (neither Regional Accreditors, but the process is very similar). In the case of Touro, it appears that the main campus’ business school did not have the required number of full-time faculty for the number of students enrolled. This is the on-campus business school in New York, not TUI. Student/Faculty ratios are a compliance issue to the Commission.

When it was time for Touro College’s periodic review, the Commission decided that the school needed more full-time faculty to meet one of its many standards. What action would they take? They would not choose any of the first four options because these “reaffirm” accreditation. Options 5 through 7 (postponement and self-study) are used when more information is needed. This is supposed to be used for “procedural” issues and not used when there is an issue of non-compliance. Option 8 is awfully unusual; it’s where the report is rejected out-of-hand and it was not chosen by the Commission. That leads us to the final four options – warning or probation, followed by show cause and/or removal of accreditation.

These last four options are supposed to be the only ones used when the issue is of non-compliance, rather than procedural issues. The lowest responses, warning and probation, both have the same effect. One does not necessarily precede the other. A school isn’t issued a warning and then placed on probation for another 24 months. Either remedy used by the Commission is supposed to last, in total, no more than 24 months. Either of these options can be the first step used by the Commission. If I had to guess, I would bet that TC never received a warning and the Commission went straight to probation. (However, I suspect that TC must have received one of the 5 through 6 options (postponement) first, lasting a couple of months, just to make sure the facts were correctly presented.) Contrary to your opinion, the Commission does routinely place schools on probation – I’d guess more than one school per year.

When I wrote that, “It's the only way the accreditors can enforce their will on schools.” That’s exactly what I meant. It is not so much one of the “big sticks” (as you wrote) but one of the few sticks used by the Commission when compliance issues need to be addressed. Some issues (like hiring faculty) require more than two months to resolve, which is how some schools move from postponement to probation. When enrollment shoots up, it can be hard for some schools to hire enough faculty to keep pace. Again, this is the on-campus business school in New York, not TUI; so I don't know the specifics of what's happened to TC.

 

I didn't say that they were sequential. But probation is the more serious response.

And there are 256 higher ed institutions accredited by MSA/CHE. So this would make probation anything but routine for any given school.

Dissemble away, Steve. It's interesting to see someone other than the degree-millers doing it.

 

VERY discouraged with TUI !

I came to this discussion tonight to hear exactly what is being said about TUI, and my suspicions are now confirmed!
I applied to TUI's Phd Business program in November, and hadn't heard a word. I could never get a response from the business school through email or phone message!

Quite discouraging for someone persuing a DL degree from a program where communication is critical..

I began to think something was wrong with the PhD program.
When I finally did get an email response, the answers to "status of my admission" questions were very evasive. Repeated attempts to simply get a confirmation of processing were never clearly answered. I was just informed after pressing the advisor for some kind of answer that many PhD programs can take up to a year for a decision on admission?
Is this in line with TUI's PhD prgram??

I am very frustrated as I had shopped around for what I thought would be the best Dl pHd business program. Very disappointed.

And now, no more applicants for the PhD program??

And tonight, problems with accreditation ? What's next?

I have decided to move on after valuable time has been lost.

I have been more than accomodated by other schools actually desirous of my attendance.

My only wish was that these advising offices and administrators would regard your desire for admission as highly as you do. A PhD program is not a passing fancy. Prospective students like myself have made life-altering decisions to pursue such an advanced degree. Adjustments need to be made, preparation needs to be done.
I haven't felt the slightest bit of concern from TUI.

Regards,
wise1
BBA, MBA