Something Positive about NCU PhD

Are there any positive reports out there about NCU, either of the sort "No, I went there and it was rigorous and okay" or "well, they're doing X, Y, and Z to improve."
I'm only asking because if it wasn't for the postings I've seen on this board, I'd be looking at them as a first choice: no residency, a criminal justice specializaiton in their PhD, etc.

 

there are some opposing (positive) views at www.collegehints.com

You will have to assess the veracity of either view. They are regionally accredited.

 

Where are they?

 

http://www.collegehints.com/boards/

 

Under "Northcentral University" in the distance learning portion. Perhaps "defending" would be better than "positive"? But perhaps I have missed the point?

 

While I have no specific interest in reviving an old flame-war, I think that the above post deserves some "unpacking." The particular phrasing that Fed employs suggests that there is a single "degreeinfo opinion" on the subject of NCU. While this may indeed appear to be the case I do not think that it represents the reality of the situation. A very few members, based on their own personal experiences with a very few courses, have expressed some reservations about the rigor of the academics. While I will not even imply that their experiences or opinions are invalid, I would suggest two things,
1) that these few personal experiences do not necessarily reflect the overall caliber of education at this RA school. If people decide that this is not the case then you must be prepared to question the academic caliber of every RA school. After all, RA is RA. If you question this school then you question the entire RA process. If that's what you want then that's OK, just don't bite off more than you can chew.
2) while it is often expressed in other forums that there is a degreeinfo "orthodoxy," I do not believe that this is truly the case. I personally have fairly orthodox views when it comes to issues such as accreditation. Others may or may not subscribe to similar views. There is, however, no policy or enforced unified
view. I base this on my own reading of a large number of threads/postings. What occurs, is that persons with opposing views (such as those who would promote a "school" like SRU) can not withstand the force of evidence and logic that is applied to the relevant arguments.
NCU is a newly accredited (RA) university. As with any new endeavor, it's likely that there are problems. It's also likely that you could uncover problems if you went into any school with a magnifying glass. The concerns about NCU are valid and should be addressed immediately. Beyond this, NCU is an accredited university and will remain so until the relevant agency changes its status.
Jack

 

If there is such a dogma, it is only because it reflects the realities of the work and academic worlds.

There might not be a dogma, but there is a collective consciousness--a counterbalanced viewpoint derived from many individual viewpoints.

People on other boards who spend entirely too much time complaining about this are exercising their agendas. Equating national accreditation (like DETC) with regional accreditation is one. Arguing that state approval should have some form of respect and acceptance is another. Both fly in the face of both research and observations. That's why they like their little haven.

 

Jack,

I did not interject my view. The original poster implied the negativity by asking for positive reports and the comment "...if it wasn't for the postings I've seen on this board...". I may have interpreted wrong but the asking for positive reports would suggest otherwise. I didn't imply, suggest, or state that Degreeinfo as a whole had a consensus of opinion on NCU, but rather merely responded to the query. Interesting that you should think otherwise. Any suggestions for future format?

Are there any positive reports out there about NCU, either of the sort "No, I went there and it was rigorous and okay" or "well, they're doing X, Y, and Z to improve." I'm only asking because if it wasn't for the postings I've seen on this board, I'd be looking at them as a first choice: no residency, a criminal justice specializaiton in their PhD, etc.

My observation has been that the only consistent topic has been one of RA utility and quality of education. Neither of which is debatable. Although it sure seems that way

I am not interested in any "flame-war" but lately have been researching old threads for information on schools and understand the issues amongst some of the different forums and personalities.

I'll drag out my nomex suit (I'm also an Auburn grad so I've been taking that heat lately) so you can flame away.

 

Rich - I think that we are in general agreement here. I would only question your use of the term "dogma" as it does more than suggest the very thing I was arguing against. Dogma is a policy or attitude or doctrine that is passed down from some authority to be accepted without question. My explicit point was that there is no "dogma," but that perhaps, as you later suggested, there are a variety of viewpoints that roughly come to some general agreement through the process of discussion. See ya,
Jack

 

Jack,

I do not think the RA process is at all what is in question. As Andy Bouchers so nicely indicated in a different thread (see below), NCA or any other regional accreditor is not so much concerned with quality of the institution’s product, but rather they are more interested in the institution’s processes. Andy also shares that professional accreditors such as AACSB, ACBSP and ABET focus more on the quality and substance of a subject program and courses.

Accordingly, I see the past comments and concerns as directed at very specific PhD courses in a specific (business) program that raise very real questions regarding the quality of the courses and program. If these same issues extend beyond the discussed courses and program, then the issue of quality may be systemic to the institution. However, if it does not then perhaps it is just a series of isolated instances. In either case, it would serve NCU and their program/s well to remedy the apparent quality (rigor) issue at hand, which is not really a costly or overwhelming effort.

Again, RA does not ensure program quality, provide blanket credibility or establish the reputation for a school, its programs or degrees. Credibility and reputation is something that will be judged by the consumer, and perhaps professional accreditation councils such as AACSB or ACBSP will review the program and course quality in the future.

Unfortunately, until I see a positive move or gesture to correct the presented issues, I cannot help but to have reservations about the level of rigor and quality of the PhD business program. However, it seems like a relatively small reach in order for NCU to remedy the issue, so perhaps there will be a more positive indication in the near future.

Tom


*****************
Re: Re: Another Comparison Point
In fact, NCA accredits institutions, not degree programs. They are quite concerned with an institution's processes - and far less on their "product".

Bodies such as AACSB (business), ACBSP (business) and ABET (engineering and technology) are more focused on program content.

Regards - Andy
quote:

Originally posted by tesch



In terms of NCA, do you think it is possible that they did not review these particular courses? From what I understand (which is very limited in this area), the accreditors rely substantially on the material presented to them from the school's self-study report. Accordingly, the evaluation team, which is generally comprised of members from peer institutions, attempts to validate the information they are provided, rather than doing a comprehensive examination of every course.


Tom

__________________
Andy Borchers, DBA
NSU (1996)

***********

 

Hi Tom - you may be right about these points, I simply don't know enough about the accreditation process to say one way or the other. I have three additional thoughts, both of which you've touched upon. The first is that I'd be rather surprised to discover that the RA process pays no attention to the quality of the education provided. It may not be their primary focus but I'm guessing (and it's only a guess) that they monitor the qualifications of the instructors, the curriculum, etc. I'd be relatively certain that they do not pay attention to the actual instruction of courses, which is where the identified problems lay. My second thought is in regards to the professional accrediting bodies. I'm guessing that the vast majority of what goes on in any university does not fall under this type of accreditation. Business and Engineering are clearly important but who's minding the store when it comes to academic areas such as History, Literature, Biology or Physics? Are there accrediting bodies for these disciplines? If the answer is yes then perhaps we should learn more about them. Finally, I'd have to guess that if you're correct in regards to the role of Regional Accreditors in insuring quality education, then I'd say that this moves us at least a step closer to having to admit that, at least potentially, you can get as good an education at an unaccredited school as you can at an RA school. This is a can of worms that I hesitate to open but the implication seems clear.
Jack

 

To quote my 12 year old daughter's take on the matter.

"Like DUH"

 

Wow, I didn't mean to start this! I was just trying to see if there was a balanced view - maybe there isn't. Mabye no one on the board thinks they're any good. Which is also fine ;-) That's what makes this forum useful - real opinions from real people.

 

I understand what you're saying here Dennis but in my mind it's a bit premature. I continue to believe that the accreditation process that occurs through Regional Accreditation process pays more than a little bit of attention to the quality of the product sold by the universities. I will be the first to admit that I have no evidence of this but frankly, I can not believe that Regional Accreditors would move through a school and only pay attention to things like cash flow or admission/graduation statistics or whatever is meant by the term "the institution's processes," as used by Tom above. If I'm wrong then your daughter may have a good point to make in this argument.
Jack

 

I am a Ph.D student in the BA program. I just started last month, after researching many DL schools. I decided to give NCU a try. I am in the "infamous" research class LS6010 that started the discussion. It is NOT an easy class. I have been a licensed attorney for 14 years, and do lots of research and writing. This class is introducing me to the APA format required for my dissertation, and fine tuning my research skills on the internet. It took my a week to finish my first assignment. So I am not sure where people could say that the course can easily be completed in 3 days.

So here is an opinion for a new student, who is pleased with with the course, interaction with my mentor/teacher, and the staff. I think from the early stand point, I am getting a good deal for my $$. I highly recommend the program at this point.

rnattorney

BS University of Nebraska
ASN University of the State of New York
JD College of Law University of Nebraska
Ph.D -began 12/03 at Northcentral University

 

I've only been reading here about 6 weeks and as a newcomer I can say my opinion is that there is a definate "line to tow" here just from sitting and reading over the last several months worth of postings about this school and several topics in general.

I really know nothing about this school other than the mostly negative remarks that have been made, at least several pages worth of posts dedicated repeatedly to this school alone, over the last 3 weeks or so.

I can also say that being someone new to the research of higher education and its ins and outs, I find myself very much swayed by what I read here. Having little other basis in fact to make observations and decisions, since I can't find another board of this quality, I know that the remarks made here would probably lead me away from this school if I were looking for a doctorate and felt that the only the best degree is earned by the most work, sweat, and sacrafice (and perhaps cash).

I know that when the time comes for me to pick a masters program, while I will look for guidance from the many contributors here, ultimately it will come down to family pressures, current employment situation, finances, and time expended to obtain a degree. I wish I could pick where I end up by utilizing only some of the very high ideals I read of here. But life will, as always, rudely interupt my best intentions.

 

I am looking at PhD/DBA programs and, although I do respect the opinions on this board, I am seriously considering the NCU PhD program. I would not let other people opinions make any final decisions for me.

Bottom line - the school is RA and accepted.

 

Agreed. I own my own small business and make my own decisions. I appreciate the input here but I decided to enroll in NCU.

I notice that my LS6010 syllabus shows a 12/8 revision date. Yesterday (12/31) I received an e-mail from my mentor addressed to all learners. In it she made it very clear what her expectations are. I believe NCU will move to correct deficiencies as time goes by.

I heard the naysayers when I finished my BS at the University of the State of New York in 1984:

"What, a degree from New York when you live in Florida?"

"Is that a mail order degree?"

The pessimists had a field day when I attended Nova (Southeastern) University in the late '80s:

"That place is a degree mill!"
"Nova is a matchbox school!"

I never regretted either decision.

Both degrees have served me very well.

 

Ah, the naysayers - yes, I am already hearing those at work about my enrollment at COSC. Guess they'll need to get over that. I'm very excited about completing a degree with 9 tests. And already looking at masters programs. I still thank Lawrie Miller and many here everytime I think of what I will soon accomplish.

The point I was making in my post was that those who don't research closely and really think about what they want, could easily be swayed by what they read and the force with which the arguments are put forth. since there are few public forums where one can get information. The other boards I have read appear to be full of, how can I say it, well, I don't have a word that comes to mind easily. Most here are obviously quality people.

When someone, including me, becomes part of community board like this they can easily forget how newcomers view topics.

I am only completing my degree now because I found this board which lead me to Lawrie Miller's site. In 6 short weeks I've gone from a seeker to a doer, enrolled in a college and have my first tests scheduled, all by the power of posts on a community board. It's almost magic. I almost ended up a Kennedy Western just because I knew no different, especially after getting their slick promotions. Thankfully, I decided to do research. And I found this board. And I'm so thankful I did.