Master's degree in order to remain employed?

I have been reading in a number of periodicals that the reason US corporations are opting to offshore/outsource so many white collar jobs is because folks overseas are beginning to improve their education systems such that they are producing more workers with advanced degrees than the US.

Assuming this is true, would it make a person more competitive in the job market if one had a master's degree? Some of the articles I have read state that these overseas employees have more master's degrees than US citizens.

I wonder. Education is so expensive here, and the cheaper schools do not have evening programs, so you must add opportunity cost.

Just some thoughts that bring up more questions. Comments welcome.

 

In general, if the master's degree is in an appropriate area to the job, I'd say it's a foregone conclusion that it would be helpful. We are living in a world of degree mania and degree inflation. However, I think a doctorate could be a potential hazard for many jobs, because it might seem too intimidating.

Peter

 

Even if it were not true, the answer would still be yes.

Also, within the US certain areas have a higher percentage of graduate degree holders than other areas. I believe the national average is 7% of the employable population with a graduate degree. My city's average is 9% and my father's city average is 3%. I found this on a website a while ago, not sure where though.

 

It's more than just education that's causing knowledge work to be outsourced to Bangalore, etc. After earning your M.S. degree, are you willing to sling Java code for US$12,000 / year. Or how about fill out tax returns for US$6000 per annum? Or maybe analyze European commodities markets for US$10,000/year?

 

Re: Re: Master's degree in order to remain employed?

My opinion on this is education is important and the people in the countries where the jobs are outsourced to are pretty much educated from within there own country. However, it's the cheap labour that is making all the difference.

U.S companies realize that these foreigners have the basic/necessary qualifications and are willing to do the job far far cheaper than at home workers, $10,000-$12,000 U.S. per annum in a developing country is comparable to $150,000-$180,000 sometimes more, depending on the country.

Is this fair? Well, it doesn't seem so. Should work be outsourced overseas because of cheap labour?

 

Re: Re: Master's degree in order to remain employed?

Your point is the thing clobbering me over the head every time I consider spending the dough for an MS. I want the learning opportunity, but at what cost?

Should one chase the market by adding yet another degree? What is the return on the investment? It is like placing a bet where my debt will increase substantially if I lose. Of course, I am of the opinion that one can educate oneself as well as a school can (I know there are decent arguments against that presumption).

It is a null argument to say something idealistic in reply that "education is reward in and of itself blah blah blah". In America, there is a price for that paper.

Let's say every Bangalorean has an MS. They get all the white collar jobs as a result. The US corporation may have a few token, underpaid US citizens employed. My MS gets me one of those spots at say, $35-$40K/year. If I have no debt except the student loan for the MS, I can still live above the poverty line at that rate in most US cities.

Am I foolish to think I have a chance even with the MS? As cmt and P.Kristian point out, it is still better to have an MS than not.

But if I can still get that $35-40K job WITHOUT the MS...see that's the bet. The cynic in me says my salary of $70K won't last more than a couple more years, if that. So in my opinion, I'm going to have to get that MS in two years or less, or be without one and save my money because I'm going to be on the street, ANYWAY.

I'm so confused. I have no idea where my country is headed with regard to future job opportunities.

 

Perhaps I should mention that my recent queries on this board about undergraduate and advanced degrees in mathematics are related to my questions in this thread.

A little birdie (it might be an evil, misleading birdie) keeps whispering in my ear that John and Susan Hyderabad have technical and scientific master's degrees, and perhaps a math degree with its ever-presence in all of the sciences will trump their master's degrees, in addition to the fact that the area is a fascination/interest of mine.

 

Obviously there are other considerations that also need to be taken into account. But in general, I think the answer is "yes." There was an interesting recent discussion on a similar topic at the Heriot-Watt EBS "Watercooler," and the following comments (from poster MOTMAITRE) struck me:

• ... The gains of international trade and economic efficiency benefit a large number of people a little, but the costs (which are much less than the gains) hurt a few people a lot. We see the few people who are losing their jobs, but not the much greater number who are slightly better off as a result of the increase in global economic efficency and expansion of world output.

 

I think it is a misleading birdie. Indian universities are exceptionally strong in mathematics -- they compete much better in mathematics than in other areas of science (and technology) because they don't need the same level of funding to excel. Both teaching and research in mathematics are inexpensive -- so the Western countries have no advantage.

 

Yeah, people say that when it isn't THEIR career that is being outsourced.

A less emotional answer....

...the answer is a clear NO, as long as there is not an even playing ground. So what if a few people in China make $1.50 instead of $.33 per hour--if the workers are still being abused. Globalization only makes sense if everyone plays by a similar set of rules.

 

I am sure you are correct from an academic perspective. But I'm just trying to get past HR pawns.

 

I think s/he was referring to how a math degree would make someone more agile in the job market. I agree that a challenging degree program (math/science, engineering) would indicate flexibility to a potential employer looking for a worker with strong analytical and quantitative skills.

I disagree with you on this point though. Despite prestigious schools elsewhere (such as the IITs) Europeans and Asians flock to the USA's graduate math, science and engineering programs in droves.

 

Re: Re: Re: Master's degree in order to remain employed?

All I can say is: Welcome to the club.

 

It was this rationale that led me to pursue and complete the same degree -- concentration in math that is -- through Excelsior (Regents) College 5 years ago.

Though I doubt it is a 'trump card,' employers in most fields value quantitative skills. I believe the sciences and eng. are also great prep for law and business school as well.

I didn't see your other posts re: the topic, but the upshot of doing math programs from a distance is the dearth of math courses north of calculus (which, contrary to popular belief is not considered higher or upper-level math) with a smattering of diff e.q. and linear algebra courses. I hope the landscape is a bit better now.

 

Re: Re: Re: Master's degree in order to remain employed?

WhaleRider writes:

> Am I foolish to think I have a chance even with the MS? [...]
> The cynic in me says my salary of $70K won't last more than
> a couple more years, if that.

Isn't the solution to find yourself a "niche"? A skill set that's in high demand but where thousands of people possess the same skills is more likely to suffer from outsourcing than a skill set for which there's low demand, but enough demand to employ you.

Find a specialty that's practical, but rare. Maybe do a part-time Master's in it, but maybe not; employers and recruiters always care more about the skills you've actually used on the job.

Or find a specialty that requires face-to-face contact.

Or get an MBA, and become the manager doing the outsourcing.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Master's degree in order to remain employed?

Maybe I'll go for that!! lolz

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Master's degree in order to remain employed?

I can't wait until you tell me what is in high demand/low supply that can't be offshored (that isn't crouching over sewage with a plumbing wrench or turning wrenches at a car dealership).

I don't see MBA differentiating anyone at this point unless it is from an expensive blue blood exclusive school.

Not trying to be overly negative here...just trying to help you with reality.

 

Something I have ran across a few times recently at Hi Tech firms in the Portland, OR area is that they are REQUIRING one to have an H-1 visa before you can be scheduled for an interview. (It's not available to me as I am a US citizen.) These are jobs in Software/QA requiring Bachelor's plus some post-grad work, minimum of 5 years experience in the field, and the typical starting pay is around $20/30,000. Then I read that Engineers are being imported because "We just can't find qualified Americans."

 

They mean they can't find qualified Americans that will take $20-30K, with those qualifications. Most software professionals can't live on that money without moving back in with their parents.

 

I agree with you on the quantitative skills. I have interest in computer graphics/animation that would be greatly assisted by having a better math background, not to mention, should the bottom fall completely out of the computer field, I could twist my resume into something appropriate for actuary, statistician, or math teacher, for that matter. Trying to be specific with real goals while keeping things open for a world which can't be nailed down is a real challenge.

I'm reviewing for the Calc I exam at Ohio University right now in an effort to get through all of their available math exams (Calc 3 through 4, Linear Algebra, ODE are the ones I didn't take in undergrad but I took Calc I&II so long ago...) in order to get enough credits to qualify for my local state school's grad math program. Barring that, I'll try for the USQ/Australia's Grad Math Diploma, perhaps. If I can find Topology, Discrete Math, and one more upper level math course, I can probably get a BA in Math from TESC or COSC.

I could also do those courses and take the Math GRE. If I score high enough, maybe the upper level math requirements will just fall into place for enough credits for the BA. Still researching.

Step at a time.

Any tips appreciated. I am curious as to how you fulfilled the math requirement for your BA.