M.Div. Equivalency "Exam"?

Greetings Mighty Forum~~~

Has anyone ever heard of such a thing? I have a long lost friend who aspired to study for a PhD at, I think it was Southeastern Baptist Seminary, or some Southern Baptist seminary, and he apparently took an "equivalency" examination for an M.Div. having earned basically the same thing I have. He had a bachelor's in Bible and Theology (one of my two majors) and a masters in semitic languages. Because of the breadth of his experience, apparently, this seminary gave him an exam upon entrance into a PhD program.

If there is such a thing, why do people who get BA's in Bible ever do anything different than just take the MDiv exam and then enter the PhD? Besides ordination, I can't think of the point to it all, if there really is such a test.

If this test exists, where???????

 

Hi Chris

I don't know of any exam, but , as I recall, some US schools of Theology, as Fuller, allow one to begin a PhD with an MA. Elsewhere, as at DTS, the MDiv is required.

I do not have an MDiv degree, but I do have the MDiv "Equivalency" which is stated on my 1992 transcript from Western. This, then, was a prerequisite for moving on to the ThM which I finished in 1994.

Western counted some courses in my ThB, MA and (unfinished) EdD as being similar to those in their MDiv curriculum and only required about 34 more sem units for that MDiv Equivalency.

 

Re: Re: M.Div. Equivalency "Exam"?

When you took the ThB courses, were they considered undergrad or grad level courses?

 

Hi Bill,

I have never heard of such a thing either. That's why this totally took me off guard.

I have known about Fuller's requirement of the MA only for years. Interestingly, I only have an MA and live within 1hr and 15 minutes. But anyway....

It was specifically to gain entry into the PhD program, and he called it an "MDiv equivalency" exam.

Stranger than strange. There would really be no point, if this were so, in doing the "MDiv equivalency" thing through coursework, like with Western.

By the way, what courses from your EdD program did they say were "close enough" to? What kind of classes did they substitute for?

Yours,

Chris

 

Re: Re: Re: M.Div. Equivalency "Exam"?

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The ThB then (1966) at Linda Vista (now this school is the Tracs accredited Southern Cal BC/Sem) was taken as a 5th year of Theological work and was done in the Seminary. The prereq was a BA in Biblical Studies. It was a grad degree but required no thesis...just 30 sem units. Point Loma (then in 1968 Pasadena) allowed 6 units, Church History, from this toward the MA. As I recall what Western took in was six units of second year Greek.

 

Chris,

Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary makes all PhD applicants take "MDiv knowledge exams". Your friend may just have been allowed to sit for the standard entrance exam.

Dave

 

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Well there might be a point to do the courses if one was not , as I was not, a pastor with considerable experience.

I had been "out of touch" if you know what I mean for around 12 years. When I got "plugged back in" , sola gratia BTW , in 1988 within 18 mos I wanted more former Theological study.

I drove up to Western in 1990 in Portland and met with Rob Wiggins, Registrar, and Robt Cook, Director of ThM program (retired). My MA was 22 years old. But they let me in nevertheless.

Rob did the figuring. My memory is a little vague , but I had taken a lot of grad Ed classes some of which he counted as comparable to Christian Ed and a couple of Counseling similar to Pastoral Counseling too which I think he factored in *something* like this:

ThB courses ....6 semester units, Greek

MA courses .....30 Bible, Theology, Greek Exegesis

EdD courses ....20(out of about 50) Ed/Counseling/Psychology

MDiv courses....34

My first course in June 1990 was Greek Exegesis of Pauline Soteriological Literature. I really needed grace for that not having looked at a Greek Testament since 1968!

It took me two years to do the MDiv work and two more to do the ThM as I was teaching school fulltime and did some ministry too. Western was "heaven" to me and I was, and remain, grateful. BTW, Western has some DL courses. I took several of these. Videos were used of actual classes.

 

Rob Wiggins

Hey Bill,

I just checked this today again.

Rachel and I had Thanksgiving dinner with Rob and his family in 1998, I think. They are great people.

I remember Western too. For me, though, it was mostly starting on an MA in exegetical theology. I had Greg Allison for Theology of the Reformers (terrific), and several OT classes from John Sailhamer, who was being flown in for intensives and weekends. I went to class at 6am-8am, worked from 8 to 4, class from 4:30-8pm. Not an easy schedule.

I also know Gerry Breshears well, we attended Grace Community Church with him in Portland. Sometimes I still call Gerry for advice on tough issues.

Blessings Bill,

Chris

 

Thanks! That may be the answer. If it was anything else but a portfolio type assessment, and not for credit, I don't know how it would work in our ATS accredited world.

Chris

 

The idea of an "equivalency exam" in this area seems strange at best to me. It’s really a holistic learning experience consisting of both informal and formal learning experiences. The ATS is a good source of information about the requirements and purpose of the M.Div.

I have both an MA and an M.Div from B&M institutions. My M.Div took 4 years in with one year as a chaplain intern. In most faith traditions folks are required to do a year or two of field education, at least one unit of CPE, and go through vetting of your state of mental health, and faith development. While particular requirements for ordination are always controlled by denominational interests, the M.Div process intended to be a transformational experience which develops not just knowledge and the ability to think theologically, but the somewhat intangible quality of "ministerial presence." I've known many folks who have entered seminary without being rooted and being sponsored by a faith tradition. In almost all cases they end up dropping out, getting in debt ($60,000 to $80,000 is not uncommon), or completing the degree and failing to find a place in ministry. Some folks, more interested in a general religious studies program, are finding the two year MTS programs where you have few core requirements and can pursue your interests a better solution.

While some enter Ph.D work with an M.Div, in my experience the MA is much better preparation if that is your intention.


lifelonglearner


From www.ats.edu

http://www.ats.edu/accredit/aca.htm


“A.3.2.1 M.Div. education has a complex goal: the personal, vocational, spiritual, and academic formation of the student. Because of the importance of a comprehensive community of learning, the M.Div. cannot be viewed simply as an accumulation of courses or of individual independent work. In order to ensure an appropriate educational community, at least one year of full-time academic study or its equivalent shall be completed at the main campus of the school awarding the degree or at an extension site of the institution that has been approved for M.Div. degree-granting status.”