Does Online degree LIMIT your Options ??

Hi guys,
I had a situation come up recently. An old college professor of mine who has a Bachelor and MBA from a traditional "brick and mortar" college, ran into a problem.
Here is the problem: He was attending the University of Phoenix for his Doctorate. He was about half way through his program and decided to test the market to see where he will use this degree when he achieves it. Much to his suprise a lot of the Universities in my area (New Jersey/ New York area) frown upon an online degree (Doctorate). Therefore, once he finishes his degree he couldn't teach at the college level, at least not in this area.
To make matters worse, he pulled out of UOP and transfered to New York University ( better known as NYU), they laughed at him when he tried to transfer any of his credits. He had to start from zero.
I realize that NYU is a top rated Business/Graduate school, I think they are in the top 5 ( I might be off a little, but they are highly ranked none the less)

My Question is : Has anyone on this board ever had a problem with getting a job or being promoted because of the way in which you abtained your degree was frowned upon (i.e. online)?

It seems to me that even though a program is Regionally accredited, that doesn't stop the man/woman that is interviewing you from laughing and saying......."don't call us, we'll call you"

 

I am surprised that your friend decided to do his due diligence in the middle of his program and not at the beginning. Might have saved time and money.

That NYU did not accept his credits likely has no direct relevance to it being from Phoenix, or any other distance based university. It is a very rare institution that will accept any doctoral level credits for transfer. Some do, but most do not, regardless of where those credits were earned.

As to using a distance based RA doctorate for getting a teaching job, it can be done. But the market for these jobs is so tight that even the graduates of well known, brick and mortar schools have a difficult time in finding a teaching position.

There is great utility to an RA doctorate from a distance based university. One has to have a good idea how they expect to apply that utility before jumping into the waters.

As a postscript: There is certainly nothing unusual about learned traditionalists frowning on the distance learning model.

As Hoffer noted:

"In times of drastic change it is the learners who inherit the future. The learned usually find themselves equipped to live in a world that no longer exists"

 

I would say that some people will have a problem with you having a DL but RA degree due to their own incompetence/prejudices/lack of knowledge etc.

But this is the case with everything even slightly unusual. When I first started looking for a job in chemistry I was turned down for a couple of interviews because I did not have a degree (even although the position was advertised as degree or equivalent). I did however have passes in the Royal Society of Chemistry exams (GRSC Part I, equivalent to an ordinary degree, and GRSC Part II, equivalent to a good honours degree). Not all degrees are acceptable as an equivalent for membership of the RSC so it could be argued that these were better than the equivalent degree. Turns out the chemists who would have known this never saw the application, they were weeded out in advance by a secretary who thought only BSc was a degree (presumably some graduates with a BA would have been thrown in the bin as well).

At this stage of my career this never happens but at the begining it was a possibility. Anything non standard risks the same so make sure your covering letter explains that your qualifications match what is needed and you should be ok from lack of knowledge.

There is no way round incompetence or prejudice though, you just have to accept that it happens sometimes

 

I didnt know if this could happen to a RA degree/education as well. If this is the case then this could happen with all kind of degrees (Bachelor, Masters etc) achieved through DL/online.

I have read a lot of people have gotten into further education and employment after getting their BS, MS from Excelsior, TESC, COSC and other respected colleges. If this is the case then why people get degrees this way and why do top universities are offering these kind of degrees ?

Did this happen to someone on the Canadian side ? After getting your DL/online degree (BS, MS, PhD etc) you were turned down for employment/education because it was non-traditional ?

 

Business Grad schools are a different animal

He would have a hard time getting a teaching job with a doctorate from any school that is not AACSB accredited, even a brick and mortar. This board has several threads which have argued the value of professional accreditations ad infinitum but that is the way it is, especially in business. Your friend should have looked at the job listings in the Chronical of Higher Education and he would have learned that in 5 minutes or less.

If, however, he was already a tenured professor it should have not been an issue anyway.

 

I'm currently about to finish a DBA in Information Systems at the University of Southern Queensland.

I teach at the college and university level as a lecturer. I have been given credit for the DBA by the minister of education for pay increase purposes.

I have been in many interviews and the fact that the DBA was non traditional was never brought as an issue since I have a letter from the minister of education that recognizes the degree at the doctoral level.

The main problem with UoP is that they over sell themselves so everyone knows that they are not harvard. USQ is not harvard either, but it is also an accredited australian university that few people have heard about so few questions are asked.

 

This is true, Distance learning institutions have the tendency to hire PhDs from other
DL institutions.

Jones International, UoP, Cardean are full of faculty with degrees from Nova, Capella , etc. However, most of these schools hire only part time faculty at low prices. A DL education course pays about $1200 USD, even if you teach 10 courses a year is a little more than 10K a year. This is far different from the 60K to 80K that a faculty member makes at a traditional institution teaching about the same number of courses.

 

Overall, I think there is a stigma out there, but the tides are changing slowly. I have had Doctorate Professor's, who received their degree with 4 years in a B&M institution say there is nio other equivelant, but since there is more and more out there, I think times are changing.

To note, many degrees do not say if they are distance or not, so my degree from TU does not say, and I do not bring it up, unless it is relevant.

I also think that the acceditation is the issue, not the method in which is was given. No DL (totally) school has AACSB accreditaition yet, and I think that is in part due to the stigma, buthopeully it will change soon.

 

Double post.

 

Re: Re: Does Online degree LIMIT your Options ??

My master's and doctorate were earned non-traditionally and I live and teach in New Jersey, and as such, I believe that I have a horse in this race. I will address the issues raised in this thread with questions and answers.

1. Will a DL degree limit my options?
Yes. Due to arrogance, envy, and ignorance, the prejudice against DL is still very much out there but it is slowly fading away. Nobody knows how long it will linger but the fact that many top colleges have started their DL programs will definitely help to improve the image of distance educations in general.

2. Are my colleagues laughing at my doctorate?
No. I honestly don't think so. I have in fact teamed up with some of my colleagues to publish research papers. When they saw my dissertation, they thought that I did an excellent job.

3. Can you transfer credits earned from an RA DL to a B&M school?
It depends. Credits are usually not transferable at the doctoral level. This is without prejudice to the nature of the program.

4. Can one teach at the college level with RA DL degrees?
Yes. My alumni of Nova Southeastern University and Union Institute and University teach at many New Jersey colleges.

5. Are most DL schools rated very high?
No. Most DL schools are fourth-tier colleges (see US News and World)

6. Do I hope to land a teaching job at an Ivy League school and other top schools with my Nova PhD?
No, I don't hope so. I should also add that I would never say “never”.

Ike Okonkwo, PhD
(Nova Southeastern University)

 

I'm assuming that since he's an old professor of yours, he was already teaching somewhere at the college level. How would he be prevented from teaching at the college level after he finishes his PHD if he already taught at that level before?

I'm assuming you mean that either he was teaching online before or in another area??

 

RFValve,

How can one get the letter from Minster of education ? Is there a standard procedure ? Probably I will need one as well.

Thanks.

 

In my case, the minister evaluated my education since I work as a teacher for a public college and lecturer for university. This with the purpose to put me in a pay scale. However, there are foreign credential evaluators as the university of toronto.

Australian degrees are normally accepted for many professions as professional engineers, accountants and educators.

American degrees are also normally accepted as long as they are accredited.

 

Competition

I believe you will find that all schools operate in a competive way. This will mean that in order for them to make money they need you to fill a credit requirement that allows them to support their finances.

It doesn't matter where you go (Phoenix or Oxford) its about the almighty dollar. So, don't go beating yourself to death on the tier rating of your college. Its all a big game, so be happy with what you got.

That is just my opinion, use on your own accord.


Paul

 

Re: Competition

I agree. In the case of public universities is more about connections and politics.

In my school we have faculty graduated from foreign schools that one have never heard of countries like Engypt, India, Poland and China. Some of these faculty members were hired directly from these countries when we have qualified local faculty with degrees from local universities. In real life it is not about the school, it is about who do you know and good networking skills.

 

I plan on going to a school with a good name and actually visiting the campus to avoid being limited.

 

I agree. It is not a bad idea to visit a school first before making your final decision to enroll.

Ike