Would those knowledgeable about EQUIS please let me know what you would say the American equivalent would be. For example a European school that is EQUIS accredited would be (as a general rule) of the same accreditation in the States as ___ (AACSB, RA, etc.) If there is any backup or links to your opinions, please provide, I am needing some back up.
I note that Lancaster University just got this accreditation whatever it is http://www.lums.lancs.ac.uk/news/170 Ian Anderson An ex Lancashire lad
Equis in Europe and AMBA in Britain are professional accreditations so they would be more like AACSB than an RA accreditation. National/Royal charters would be more like RA. However, those are rough not exact comparisons.
Article on AACSB and EQUIS relationship. http://mba.esc-pau.fr/who_relationship.htm Times article on AMBA, AACSB and EQUIS (EFMD) http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3703-554269,00.html “Alternatively, the accrediting bodies may agree to merge or carve up territories. In June 2002, the EFMD and AACSB International announced a strategic alliance.”
Re: Equis in Europe and AMBA in Britain Certainly not, Chris. Most of the national European schools (at least in the "old Europe" countries) are certainly a lot better than the vast majority of US RA schools (in the mid-to-lower tiers). EQUIS accredited schools are a lot closer to AACSB than to RA, that is true, but if I would rank it would look more like: AACSB - 100 % EQUIS (EFMD) - 90 % NATIONAL EU UNIS - 75 % AMBA - 75 % ACBSP - 60 % US RA UNIS - 50 % (speaking about the AVERAGE). Besides, the European "TOP SCHOOLS" have EQUIS _and_ AACSB accreditation... Furthermore, there are even some national top schools that don´t even CARE about accreditation (since that costs money and they alreay have far more willing students than places), like e.g. the University of Cologne in Management subjects (10.000 students only on the Business Department, and the clear no. 2 in Germany - no accreditation at all. what for?). Greets, Trigger
Calm down Trigger, I made no slander of European schools. I only pointed out that charters like RA are a verification of the schools status whereas professional accreditation applies to programs. However, I would point out that your assumption that any old European national university is far better than any lower tier American university is an indefensible generalization. Rankings are far too blunt an instrument to categorize a national university with hundreds of programs. My daughter is sweating bullets about a graduate program at a tier 2 school that is a world leader in its field. It accepts less than 7% of its applicants and they come from all over the world. Blind obeisance to rankings is really shortsighted. I say that as someone who has degrees from the USA and is applying to PHD programs in SA so I am not nationalist either. I go where the interest and quality are and no country or category of ranking has a lock on that. In fact, the Chronicle of Higher Education has had some articles from UK professors deriding the state of their university infrastructure and the crux of it is that the lack of investment is starting to damage quality. That may be a written off as a plea for more money but it does go to show that you can get a myopic view from here in the USA.
I didn't mean to make this a debate on if accreditation matters and which alphabet soup is best, just simple question for my purpose. The articles above helped out tremendously, I wonder why neither of their websites mention this alliance (though neither has a search engine on it).
Kirstie Europeans, and more specifically Germans, have a real hang up on quality and standards. Mostly because for centuries they have each gone their own way and it has created havoc on interoperability. Railroad gauges were different; there was at one time at least 3 tv standards; they even drove on different sides of the road. The Brits still do and have yet to truly embrace the metric system. They, like us, are still using the queens weights and measures (lbs, oz's, etc.) Wonder where the US got it independant streak, huh? Have you ever heard of iso 9200? Roughly, it is a quality standard for business that reviews management, capitalization etc in an attempt to judge the company standards with the purpose of making a judgement as far as its suitability to meet your organizations functions. There are many other standards as well, other ISO's. In the military we had other standards (NATO standard) for the purpose of allowing ammunition, communications, etc. to operate in other NATO nations military. EQUIS is a form of that for business studies. It is a quality standard. The AMBA is more of an association like the AACSB which evaluates programs and makes some determination on its validity. Studying at Grenoble will be an education in more ways than one for you. Enjoy. Do you ski? If so do it in Europe. Just so you know , they will let you ski wherever you want and will consider it your own fault if an avalanche kills you. However, skiing in the old country is just sublime.
Re: Kirstie Chris - Thanks for the words, I hope they were sincere (though I have never been able to figure out what is sarcastic and what is serious here at times). My husband is a huge skier, so he will hit the slopes while I am in class. I understand the difference, but am tyring to sell to my employer (and those of you who know me understand my employer) is very ethnocentric, and does not understand the true experience and value addition of an international education. Bascially AACSb is it, and I need to convince them otherwise. I have only gotten an incklng, and trying to get my case together up front, that is the reason for my question. Any travel hints, (like the skiing) is great, we are both non-seasoned travelers, but hope to have a great time. I understand I am going to learan more than I can realize at this point.... another reason that I wanted a European School for my doctorate. I hope that places like this site (and I have taken some lickings in the past for the "US view") and an international education, I hope to become a true educational being (did that sound too corny ). See you on the slopes
Re: Calm down Trigger, @ Chris, no worries, I do not have to calm down, actually I was not even bothered or angry, and I did not want to over-generalise either - sorry for making that impression. But sometimes you have to provoke a little for means of better understanding. Another point is that my English is certainly not good enough to always exactly hit the point. Actually, I did not even mean to point out that your "tier" system is the most important point in the world (I don´t even like it that much) - no doubt: there are certainly some low-tier universities that can be of the same or better quality, especially in certain fields, as upper-tier ones, or European ones. But, on the other side, I am pretty sure that the vast majority of the ~3000 US RA universities is lower-standard compared to the Werstern European State universities that mostly have the same standard curricula. I have seen doctoral programs from 4th tier US RA universities (in California) - gosh, we learned that content already in the "Grundstudium" in Germany, i.e. on Bachelor level! And I´ve taken GRADUATE courses at Anderson School @ UCLA, same thing -> beginning course content in Germany, and far easier and better grades in USA. Certainly, infrastructure and study (student) conditions in the US are far better than in old Europe, and you study far faster there, but only talking about accreditation, I would although dare to generalise that your ACCSB accreditation is a) "worth more" than EQUIS in Europe, b) that many of the ACCSB unis are no better at all than "just-nationally-chartered" EU state universities, and c) that MOST (certainly not all) US RA universities are below those standards... (btw: I have final degrees from the Netherlands and Germany, studied abroad in the US and am contemporarily doing my PhD in Austria and a further MBA in Australia (USQ), which is also FAR easier than German education...) Anyways, I did not want to offend anyone, I just wanted to point out my personal opinions and the way I see it... No doubt European schools lack in so many (major) things we could learn so much from the US system. No doubt at all. Best regards, T.
TriggerSoft, I am European (from Old, Old Europe), and have an undergraduate degree from the US (a top tier University) and a graduate degree from The Netherlands, both in the wide Mechanical Engineering field. I’d like to comment on some of your statements. In terms of education, I think the US is a lot better than old Europe. I think you mistake hardness with quality of education. Education in Europe (old Europe, of course) is painful, classes of 200 students, teachers don’t know your name or your face, questions are difficult to get solved, professors sit down on unreachable ivory towers, students are tested by one examination at the end of the year, etc, etc, …. . Basically, no one cares about you in those massive universities and whether you succeed or not, well, that’s your problem…. It seems that university personnel are not there exclusively for you but the other way around….. In terms of curriculum, you might definitely be right. However, pedagogically speaking I think Americans, in general, have a much better system. Yes, it is true that Americans give grades with too much generosity, it is far easier to pass and eventually graduate, but I have the feeling that even like that I learnt a lot more in a typical US school lecture than in a typical Dutch university lecture. Not only I became a good engineer (in my opinion, of course) upon graduation, the US opened my eyes in many other senses, and I will never ever forget those wonderful six years I spent there. Perhaps Germany is different since its university system is probably the best of Europe, but for the rest of the nations...... Greetings
Ski Insurance If you really are planning on skiing there, I would advise picking up some insurance before you go. Most any reputable travel agent could point you in the right direction. Or go to SKI magazines web site or check online. Your insurance probably won't cover you and if you are hurt you will get a bill for everything including having the ski patrol haul you down the mountain. Every time I ever saw someone hurt it seemed like I would look up and there was the ski patrol. They have very efficient service due to the fact that nothing is free. Maybe the car rental agebcy would sell it as well. I always had mine through my auto club when I lived there. Enjoy. In reference to you boss, show him the Business Week rankings. If I remember right Grenoble is ranked well in them.
