RE: Distance Learning Degrees, HELP

Can anyone please give me some information on distance learning colleges and universities. All these stories about illegal ones, non accredited ones, ones that are accredited but the associations that accredit them are worthless, ones that are legal in some states, which judging by their state laws, means nothing!!! The list goes on, I've seen so much and asked advice from so many people that it seems to be getting more confusing, so here is my last hope for some sanity and good advice.

Where can I find a college / university that offers degrees that fall into any of these categories: legitimate, legal, accredited.......whatever way you look at it, where can I find a degree that is worth something?

I desparately need help (not that kind of help)...moreso, I should say that I need guidance and direction on where to look. I am from oversea, and don't reside in the USA, so therefore I would need somewhere that it able to offer degrees on this front also.

So far, it seems that the best ones (well, from what i have come across, but am sure that there are better ones out there):
California Coast (www.calcoast.edu) and
Trinity College (South Dakota)
(www.trinity-college.edu. though I am a bit skeptical about trinity? What can anyone tell me about it?)


I appreciate any replies and help

Thank You in advance

D

 

What kind of degree program are you looking for?

Here's some information to help you sort out and evaluate the distance learning information you find online.

First, accreditation -- for US schools, the only meaningful accreditation is accreditation from an association recognized by the US Department of Education. For more information about accreditation and links to recognized accrediting associations, see http://distancelearn.about.com/cs/accreditation/

Neither of the two entities that you mention is accredited by a recognized association. California Coast University is approved by the state of California; some have found it useful, but I'd do some further investigation.

"Trinity College & University" in South Dakota is decidedly less than wonderful. South Dakota presently has very lax regulations regarding schools. TC&U claims accreditation from an unrecognized association that they likely set up themselves. TC&U also claims memberships in several professional educational organizations -- all legitimate and worthy organizations, but mere membership in them says nothing other than that someone at TC&U paid a membership fee. It's like claiming an affiliation with the National Geographic Society because you subscribe to the magazine. At least one professional organization, which has only individual membership and no provision for institutional membership, spent more than a year asking TC&U to remove its name from the website.

What is it about these two that seems "best"?



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Kristin Evenson Hirst
DistanceLearn.About.com

 

When in doubt just stick with the schools that have regional accreditation. Cal Coast is California state approved, Trinity is on shaky ground as per Kristen's post, and neither are regionally accredited.

What is "best" can be determined by the type of degree you are seeking. Accredited distance learning programs are currently offered in many majors at all degree levels.

John

 

Thanks for those pointers Kristin. If I can tell you what I'm looking for then maybe that would be of help:

1. A Degree that is Accredited (dosen't matter at what level, but as long as it is legal and has some recognistion).
2. An offering school that is flexible and willing to help, both good in fees and choice of programs (please don't say Charter Oak or TESC, I've been to them and they just don't seem to be able to help, maybe because I'm from the United Kingdom).
3. One that can be completed at a steady pace - so you can do it a short space of time if you want, or take longer.

All is all, this subject matter is very broad, which is evident with all these discussion boards. But I come in hope of finding clear answers with some clarity. Basically, if you know of a place that offers degrees and it's legal / recognised, then I'd be interested. Don't know what the going rate is for Bachelor's Degrees, but I have some relevant college credits and several years work experience to use, so wouldn't want it to take more than 18 months and to cost more than $3000. Can you suggest / recommend anything?

Finally, you know schools like Trinty (SD), that have previously been mentioned: are they actually illegal, or is it just that they operate in a state where the law is slim and thereofre they are able to claim legality? Because if this is the case, then is seems that most employers in countries like the UK or Australia would not mind, in the sense that the degree is legal - that would be the main thing that they would want to know? Any feedback would be much appreciated.

D

 

Cheers Tom: in answer to what you said, the level would be Bachelor's. I am from the UK and have lived here all my life, apart from a few years spent in the States, though I permanently now reside in the UK. For the Bachelor's level, the main thing I'm looking at is time - what is the length of time that offering institutions give for completion of their degrees.

Thanks in advance

 

In that case, the two first options I'd suggest would be the Open University and the University of London External Programme; both are wonderful opportunities. The former works by correspondence, while the latter uses an examination-based format.

I earned my degree from a program that is now called Excelsior College, and other similar U.S. options along these lines include Charter Oak State College and Thomas Edison State College. If you do end up choosing a U.S. school for your bachelor's, one thought to bear in mind is that we do have a private accrediting system -- so just because a school claims to be accredited doesn't mean that it has a meaningful form of accreditation. Likewise, U.S. state approval is often worthless. The best route is to go with a school accredited by one of the six private regional accrediting agencies, which make up our "gold standard" and serve as a substitute for a national standard of university recognition.

Personally, if I were in your shoes, I might also consider an Australian or South African school -- their bachelor's programs tend to have much more in common with the UK bachelor's than a U.S. bachelor's might. In South Africa, the most prominent option is, hands-down, the University of South Africa, which was founded in 1873 and boasts both Nelson Mandela and Desmond Tutu among its alumni. Potchefstroom University for Christian Higher Education, founded 1869 and alma mater of F.W. de Klerk, also offers some online bachelor's programs. In Australia, the strongest options include Charles Sturt University, the University of New England, and the University of Southern Queensland.

Good luck!


Peace,

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Tom Head
co-author, Get Your IT Degree and Get Ahead (Osborne/McGraw-Hill)

 

Whoops -- it would have been nice if I had actually answered your question as part of my post, wouldn't it?

All of the schools I listed should be very flexible when it comes to the amount of time spent; some charge a yearly fee, while others charge by the unit, but any of them should allow you as much time as you need to complete your bachelor's (though many have a minimum enrollment time; if you're looking for a school that allows you to complete your bachelor's exceptionally quickly, the University of London will let you do that).

Good luck!


Peace,

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Tom Head
co-author, Get Your IT Degree and Get Ahead (Osborne/McGraw-Hill)

 

I'm afraid that you've placed your bet on the wrong horse if you are relying on any newsgroup or forum for advice when it comes to the big picture.

There are, in fact, hundreds of programs here in the U.S. that will fit your needs - colleges and universities, public and private, all regionally accredited. But there is nothing short of reading one of the major guides in order to find what you are looking for. Why? Because even pi]our[/i] opinions on the forum are based on our individual presuppositions, research, and experience.

My advice: Look into Marcie Thorson's guide titled Campus Free College Degrees. It is similar to John Bear's guide, but a safer bet if you do not want to ger screwed by a degree mill. Marcie lists only regionally and DETC-accredited schools (and I would not consider a DETC-accredited school, so you may as well skip over that chapter) and provides more comprehensive information about each school (a full page, or even two pages, of information on each) than any other guide, including John's. URL for more information: http://www.college-distancedegree.com

If you haven't done so, it's worth spending a few more bucks and reading John's book Bears' Guide to Earning Degrees by Distance Learning as well. Differences from Marcie's book: It lists many more institutions, including those that are not accredited, but the descriptions are not as comprehensive for each school. If you've been reading this board, you already know the drill for this one: http://www.degree.net

In other words, there is a large amount of choices that meet your description. But to list them here would require a book-length response. So do the right thing and get a book.

And, lest there be any confusion, Trinity in South Dakota is a blatant degree mill. Everyone seems to agree on that, although they couch it in softer phrases. Cal Coast is, in my opinion, also a degree mill, although there is more diversity in opinions regarding them.

(I'm beginning to think we should drop the phrase "less than wonderful" from the English lexicon. In the meantime, you should begin to interpret "less than wonderful" as being akin to a degree mill, and as used by people who are afraid of being sued by a mill. I should know, since I am being sued by a mill . . .)

 

Yankee, you've returned to the topic of Trinity in South Dakota several times. If you follow the "South Dakota Law" topic in this forum, you will see that South Dakota has just passed a tough new law, largely because of schools like Trinity. It is clear that Trinity will be illegal in South Dakota as of July 1, 2001.

Of curiosity, if you "live permanently in the United Kingdom," why did you put "Conneticut" (sic) as your location in your profile for this forum?

John Bear

 

Quite curious indeed!

Russell

 

Um.
Would that be "Life without possibility of parole?

Dan

 

Hello, Yankee,
My name is Sue Johnson and I'm an admissions counselor at Northcentral University, Prescott, Arizona. We offer Bachelor in Business Administration entirely through distance learning at a very affordable tuition rate. Currently, our tuition is $120.00 per semester unit through March 15th, and then it goes up to $165.00 per unit which is still very reasonable.
You can check out our website at www.ncu.edu. I look forward to communicating with you and answering all your questions in addition to helping you through the admission process.
Please contact me at [email protected].
Regards,
Sue

 

Dear Incoming Student,
To save everyone a lot of time and energy, I have organized our registration packet into an online format to assist you in getting started on your path to computer programming as quickly as possible. As our start up date is closing in (April 9, 2001), we must process this paperwork soon in order to get your materials to you and reserve your seat for the April phase.
I would suggest to first print out all of the documents- then arrange them as follows 1) Dear Student, 2) Application Checklist, 3) Degree and Diploma Programs Offered, 4) Degree and Diploma Enrollment Agreements, 5) Transcript Release, 6) Application for Admission (or use the on-line admissions form), 7) What type of computer do I need, 8) Program costs, and 9) Credit Card Authorization (used to pay the $50 application fee) 10) Directions for Online Loan Application
Simply fax or mail the completed documents, including loan paperwork, using the fax number or address below, and we'll get the process started.
Students can also apply for loans online and receive instant decisions thru Sallie May Financial Company. Simply follow the instructions contained in the email attachment.
You may also be eligible for certain educational tax credits. Please contact me for more information.
See you online,

Tim Arnold
Admissions Coordinator
3131 Frederick Ave
St. Joseph, Mo. 64506
E-mail: [email protected]
Website: www.go2vgo.com
Phone: 888-766-3601
Fax: 816-364-3616




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Tim

 

Tim:

Does Vatterott College have either regional or DETC accreditation? If not, after 32 years of operation does VC plan to pursue such accreditation?

Russell

 

Vatterott College is accredited by the American Commission of Career Schools and Colleges of Technology (ACCSCT), a U.S. Dept. of Education-approved accreditor for occupational, trade, and technical education.

But let's put on our thinking caps, shall we, campers? Tim signs his post as follows:

[/i]

Let's see, now . . . a .com URL that is separate from the school's URL (which also uses a .com domain rather than an .edu domain, which in itself is not indicative of a degree mill since .edu domains are reserved for four-year-or-higher schools).

However, Tim also uses an e-mail address at yahoo.com.

My take: They have a legitimate accreditation as far as vocational schools are concerned, but the fact that they are suddenly marketing on both the a.e.d. newsgroup and this forum with a yahoo.com e-mail address is downright sleazy. Moreover, Tim is obviously a sales representative (lo, an admissions coordinator by any other name . . .), and obviously has a vested interest in acquiring students (which means that his opinions and advice should hardly be taken as unbiased). He is merely using this forum as a sales venue. No big whoop, but take anything he recommends with a grain of salt. You can do a lot better than Vatterdott.

 

This was my take as well. My question concerning regional accreditation was out of curiosity as to why VC does not have such, which according to their website they do not.

Russell

 

VC is accredited by the Accrediting Commission of Career Schools and Colleges of Technology (ACCSCT), one of the associations recognized by the Dept of Education -- but, as you note, it is not accredited by one of the regional associations or by DETC.

Here's what ACCSCT says about itself: "ACCSCT is a private, nonprofit, independent accrediting agency whose goal is maintaining educational quality in the career schools and colleges it accredits by striving to assure academic excellence and ethical practices." from http://www.accsct.org/ (click a couple times to get to About ACCSCT)

Looks to me as if ACCSCT has generally accredited schools that are more vocational (locksmithing, cosmetology, computer repair, etc.) than academic. The Department of Education agreed to let them accredit distance learning schools, after some initial questions (according to Chronicle of Higher Education, Jan 5, 2001). Here's what the Dept of Ed says about their scope: "Scope of recognition: the accreditation of private, postsecondary, non-degree-granting institutions and degree-granting institutions, including those granting associate and baccalaureate degrees, that are predominantly organized to educate students for occupational, trade and technical careers, and including institutions that offer distance education." from http://www.ed.gov/offices/OPE/accreditation/natlinstandspec.html (Funny that the ACCSCT website doesn't mention distance education among the details of their mission.)

My guess is that Vatterot's focus on career education and skills for employability makes it an unlikely candidate for accreditation from one of the regional associations.



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Kristin Evenson Hirst
DistanceLearn.About.com

 

Hi,

Since you're from/in the UK, the OU and London University External degrees are certainly worth a look - as would be visiting one or two universities local to you (especially the ex-poly's) to see if they can make some suggestions for your particular situation ....

Cheers,

Neil Hynd

 

I am a bit concerned that Vatterott and Northcentral are using this forum to deal personally with a potential (they believe) student.

Steve, if you look at Mr. Arnold's profile when he registered, he lists his job as "ad rep" which is refreshingly honest.

Yes, I mention my books briefly when it seems relevant -- but there is a huge amount of personal Email I get, in the form of "I might buy your book if you can assure me it has at least twenty programs in dog cosmetology..." and I do all that privately, which is how I hope Mr. Arnold and Ms. Johnson will deal with people they think might be students.

If someone asked a specific question about Vatterott or Northcentral, then of course it would be appropriate to answer here. But not, I think, trolling for students.

John Bear