Decision Regarding ACCS Postponed Until April 2004

A decision regarding ACCS's accreditation status has been postponed until TRACS April 2004 meeting. ACCS's current accreditation will remain intact until that time.

 

Reading from the commission minutes, and emphasizing that this was now a matter of public record, a TRACS representative told me today that ACCS has received a "stay" of the decision not to reaffirm accreditation until an on-site visit is completed in April 2004, at which time compliance must be fully demonstrated or the decision not to reaffirm accreditation will go into effect.

This and other actions of the commission should appear on the TRACS website in a week or so.

 

Now, this is odd. Last week a lady called me about enrolling as I inquired when looking at South African schools and other programs. I aked her about the accreditation issue. She said they (TRACS) were "still there" but got the word they have passed. Sounds a little deceptive to me.

 

Interesting. Trinity (of Liverpool fame) seems to be receiving competition from ACCS in the matter of ethics. Last spring, prospective students reported that ACCS made no mention of their difficulties when recruiting students AFTER TRACS decision.

I received an email from an administrator at ACCS (after I asked about the problem which had been discussed on degreeinfo.com) in which he stated, "You were misinformed. There was some confusion regarding a few minor issues. TRACS checked it and recognized they were at fault along with us. This has been cleared up and we are fully approved. Further, we have begun discussions with NCA to pursue regional accreditation."

What is the difference between ACCS' refusal to level with their students and the dishonesty of our "friends" in Indiana?

John Yalmeda

 

ACCS Accreditation

I was a student at ACCS over this past year. I had to postpone my studies for personal reasons but when I decided to resume my studies, I first enquired whether ACCS had retained their accreditation. A woman on the other end of the phone stated that they had! According to what I am reading on your forum, this is not true. I have gone back to LBU even though they are an unaccredited school. My experience with them has been better than it had been with ACCS. Although I liked talking with Mitch Beville of ACCS, I found the schools lack of attention to details unacceptable. If there is a possibility of ACCS losing their accreditation, it was best that I didn't waste too much money pursuing a degree with them.

 

As someone directly affected let me add my two cents. There is a world of difference between ACCS & Liverpool. Trinity had no accreditation pretending to be accreditation and frankly did not make its worth known. Worse than that they appear quite tied to MDS. ACCS is accredited by a recognized agency and even cleared some other hurdles (eg DANTES that another accredited school has not).

I was less stunned (although irritated) by Dr. Beville not sharing this problem with me when I enrolled (especially after knowing him for some time) than I was upset with the fact that ACCS had let students down by getting administratively to this point to begin with. These apparently were not academic problems but administrative and frankly that 'Christian' administrators would do such an apparently lousy job of following administrative regulations and retire is an outrage.

In a sense as I understand it, the 'show cause' or 'stay' as Russell referred to it was the best possible outcome. ACCS worked very hard to overcome problems and demonstrate compliance and earnestness to TRACS. I am given to understand the 'show cause' was the best that could be hoped for and better than upholding the decision to deny reaffirmation.

I have enjoyed my studies at ACCS but administratively they been 'challenged'. I have experienced administrative frustration. I have heard this from others who have had to be quite diligent to get everything accomplished (ie pushy). I am not sure what they did was so much deceptive as somewhat administratively inept. My impression is that information does not filter properly. Let me give an example, I spoke to someone there on Friday who told me they had heard that they received reaffirmation without any strings attached (rumor or misunderstanding). This was not the case nor based on information I have did ACCS expect it to be the case.

North sighhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

Re: ACCS Accreditation

Frankly, I do not see LBU as a better use of your money. At least your ACCS credits would have been from an accredited school at the time. LBU has no accreditation and a rather interesting list of faculty credentials. I do not know what level you are pursuing but we could make some suggestions here that may have more utility if you do not want to take courses at ACCS.

North

 

Excellent post, John. I posed a similar question in my post Full disclosure here but no replies were forthcoming. It would appear it's easy to trash schools that claim accreditation that's bogus but when one's "baby" comes into question, it's almost "hands off." If we're going to criticize one than we need to be critical of all who appear deceptive. Fair is fair and right is right.

 

Excellent post, John. I posed a similar question in my post Full disclosure here but no replies were forthcoming. It would appear it's easy to trash schools that claim accreditation that's bogus but when one's "baby" comes into question, it's almost "hands off." If we're going to criticize one than we need to be critical of all who appear deceptive. Fair is fair and right is right. The irony of all this is that ACCS is in limbo and Trinity may actually get RA.

 

Excellent post, John. I posed a similar question in my post Full disclosure here but no replies were forthcoming. It would appear it's easy to trash schools that claim accreditation that's bogus but when one's "baby" comes into question, it's almost "hands off." If we're going to criticize one than we need to be critical of all who appear deceptive. Fair is fair and right is right. The irony of all this is that ACCS is in limbo and Trinity may actually get RA.

 

Re: ACCS Accreditation

I don't know what program you're in but if you're in a master's program, a DETC accredited school with master's progams in theology, religion, Bible and ministry is Global University. Their fees are very reasonable also.

 

It's strange how sometimes the difficulties (serious ones, too) of an accredited school are made to serve the oblique purpose of legitimizing unaccredited schools, including schools that deceive as on autopilot. It's strange also how personal repentance demands to be accepted on blind faith--refusal to do so being regarded as sanctimoniousness--but documentable institutional efforts at remediation (however incompetent) are tarred with a brush of moral dislike.

The problems at ACCS are due to a critical lack of organizational skills and extraordinarily poor interstaff communication among honorable people. How do I know this? I went and saw for myself.

The problems of TTS, Dothan, etc., etc., involve a tissue of lies; deliberate, sustained misrepresentations; ill-concealed shilling; phony degree nomenclature; phony extramural institutional links; fostering deliberate confusion with other unrelated seminaries; extensive nepotism in faculty and administrative hiring; fake accreditors or unrecognized accreditors.

This is not to mention other "schools" named after apostles, American revivalists, or even after real schools of the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod.

Am I willing to give ACCS a carte blanche recommendation? No. Nor am I willing to see it equated with profoundly less-than-wonderful schools as a means of silencing the rattling of skeletons milling about in various closets. The tu quoque argument is shopworn and meretricious, always revealing more about its source than its target.

There is a difference, after all, between a klutz and a con.

It's just strange, that's all.

 

As a former doc student at both TTS and ACCS I would like to express my opinion as well. It basically concerns degrees of guilt:

TTS claimed "global" accreditation" and "world-wide utility" of their degrees. Those are bald faced lies! I have this is print in the 2001 catalogue. In the TTS forum TTS administrators regularly appeared to respond to any questioning of those claims. Privately , on the otherhand, in phone and emails , two different administrators, honestly qualified the TTS grossly overstated claims. I found the work at TTS to be of some rigor--never have I said otherwise-- and did like having graders---why call them "profs"--with accredited PhDs/ThDs in Bib/Theol--none of these at Dothan or LBU. When on the phone a TTS prof with a Dallas PhD said my work was at doc level, I trusted his judgement as he had "been there" and "done that." But the Dothan and LBU guys, well...? If TTS gets RA, then I will be glad for TTS students. What that would prove is that even TTS far, far surpasses Dothan and LBU. TTS getting RA, however, unlike The Blood, does not wash away sins!

ACCS is TRACS accredited, but I agree with some above, that ACCS needs to put on its website the current difficulty it has. That is the honest thing to do, IMO, and to do otherwise is a form of misrepresentation. Personally, I did not find the rigor of ACCS much different than TTS. While ACCS has "profs" with accredited docs, in Bib/Theol these are DMins and mostly NA accredited. A DMin , IMO, does not prepare one to teach doc level Bib/Theol. So, that is a second difficulty were one's DMin there in Bib/Theol. Personally, I had no trouble with the "administrative" aspects at ACCS.

As far as Dothan and LBU are concerned, neither have enough of whatever is needed to achieve even TRACS accreditation. So I think...um..how does that expression go, oh yes, "I wouldn't talk if I were you." Neither is improved by ACCS' problems. If any considering Dothan or LBU for grad work in Bib/Theol wishes to peruse the TRACS accreditation criteria, that one will there see TRACS wants profs with accredited docs in the appropriate fields teaching grad programs. Dothan and LBU do not have this in Bib/Theol. Understand, here we have in TRACS a conservative Christian accrediting body, not just me, therefore, saying the Bib/Theol faculty [among other things?] of Dothan and LBU are too lightweight. That is, for accreditational purposes TRACS does not recognize the Bib/Theol docs of the LBU/Dothan profs!Nevertheless, both Dothan and LBU go on handing out PhDs/ThDs in Bib/Theol as taught by people who themselves have not experienced the rigor of accredited doc work in those fields.

Let's see, to get a BA to teach junior high English, my profs all had accredited docs. But to get a PhD in Theology, profs with accredited docs is not required? Oh, right! IMO, that, also is gross misrepresentation. What's that about the pot and the kettle again?

But yes, IMO too, ACCS needs to be up front and consistent about its difficulties.

 

Accs Compared: Lbu,bethany,tts

sorry for the new thread...could not get the other to post!

Yes, ACCS is doing wrongly by not indicating on its website its current difficulties. Also, IMO, ACCS should not offer DMins in Bib/Theo unless such is supervised by PhDs/ThDs, not DMins, in those disciplines. However, ACCS did achieve NA accreditation and neither Dothan or LBU ever has. So, I wouldn't brag about the quality of the latter two schools! They do not have the stuff in the eyes of even TRACS!

TTS for years claimed "global accreditation" and "world wide" utility. IMO that was a "sin." However, at least TTS had profs with accredited docs teaching doc level Bib/Theol which Dothan and LBU do not. When a TTS prof told me my work was at genuine doc level, I believed him as his PhD was from DTS. He'd been there and done that. But a Dothan or LBU Bib/Theol prof...um...well! As a former doc student at both TTS and ACCS, I found the classwork similar in rigor. Were TTS to get RA, then I will be glad for the TTS students. However, unlike Blood, RA does not wash away sin. If TTS gets RA then that further reveals how far behind LBU and Dothan lag.

But LBU/Dothan hand out ThDs/PhDs in Bib/Theol taught by profs who have not been through the rigor of accredited doc work in these areas. Understand, it is not just I who sees that as a weakness, it is also TRACS. But LBU and Dothan go right on doing that and IMO that deceit easily equals the current fault of ACCS. So what do they say about the pot and the kettle?

 

Re: Accs Compared: Lbu,bethany,tts

As always a man who is fair, balanced and honest. How refreshing!

 

Very good & accurate points! Basically what I was trying to say above.

Although Bill G. says he experienced no administrative problems, if I could name 4 people (myself included who have taken courses at ACCS, all would say they had experienced some administrative headaches. One guy I know who completed his doctorate finally asked for a different advisor and had a list of headaches he had with ACCS initially. I have had similar experiences and just realized that the registration process would be difficult every semester. It is as you say a lack of administration and some organizational impairment. Amazing sometimes and really lead me to understand why there was an administrative mess with the accreditor. I have had calls with an administrative assistant who is sweet as can be but oh vey. I think Uncle's 'klutz' analogy is good to describe some of the administrative problems.

In truth I think Liberty was at one time in a similar predicament in the late 80's early 90's. Liberty had grown too fast in relationship to its ability to serve the students. Later they apparently fixed this. I remeber a Chaplain friend of mine hwose wife was taking courses there who was furious with them and his wife finally withdrew. They had administrative headache after headache. I think his comment was something to the effect that "She was going to go to a real school". Of course Liberty overcame that is a well respected Christian university with a good DL program.

North

 

Re: Accs Compared: Lbu,bethany,tts

While LBU does have faculty with unaccredited doctorates, they also have faculty with accredited doctorates:

James Anderson, Ph.D. (Southwestern Baptist)
Chris Cagan, Ph.D. (UCLA); Ph.D. (Claremont Graduate School)
Ben Rogers, Th.D. (UNISA)
William Smart, Ph.D. (University of Oklahoma); Ph.D. (LBU)
Wayne Wall, Th.D. (UNISA)

According to LBU literature each dissertaton must be approved by three faculty members, and there are no doubt LBU doctoral students who have accredited Ph.D.'s serving on their doctoral committee.

 

Re: Re: Accs Compared: Lbu,bethany,tts

===

Well, I think you are assuming here. A PhD in Biblical studies could be in OT,NT, or Theology.

Are you saying that LBU has a prof with an accredited doc in EACH of these areas Russell? Name them, then, please.

But let's say you are correct: A whole one accredited doc looking at the dissertation. Just imagine that

 

Re: Re: Re: Accs Compared: Lbu,bethany,tts

I wouldn't know, Bill. The names I listed are in the catalog.

One would think that one accredited doc on a committee would be better than none. At least one, as you say, would understand the rigors of an accredited program.

And true, a high percentage of faculty have earned LBU degrees, forgive me for not specifying the exact percentage--85.3986475% . But this alone a poor school doesn't make. Bob Jones has a similar scenario in this regard.

I doubt if DTS or TEDS is concerned with LBU, ACCS, UZ or others.

 

Re: Re: Re: Accs Compared: Lbu,bethany,tts

Don't many seminaries, universities, colleges, etc., also use external examiners?