And now for my 6th attempt to post in reply to TOM. This time, cleverly starting a new thread. If this doesn't work, expect carrier pidgeons: aha, it worked. Now for a quick edit. Shawn..FORGET unaccredited! Do this: 1) .. First,try to get into the SATS ThM . DL, CHEAP, GAAP, RESPECTABLE. probably one year. (not like a USA ThM) 2) ..Then, UNIZUL for DPhil or ThD. Again, DL, CHEAP, GAAP, RESPECTABLE. Forget unaccredited! OK you pidgeons, back into the cage
Hi pirate, I'm a student at SATS, though I'm in the BTH program. I really like it. It's challenging and the courses are well presented. As for the price, well, I don't think you'll find a better alternative that's accredited. The even reviewed my Bible school credits and gave me some credit for them, about a third, perhaps a bit more towards my Bachelors. So even your unaccredited classes may get some credit. I simply sent them my transcripts and let them judge. I don't know them off-hand, but there are different disciplines you can focus on in the THM. If you didn't know this check it out in the masters degree section on their website. www.sats.edu.za God bless you in your studies!
=== No, I cannot. But Alan Easton is enrolled , ask him. Try to get SATS to give you some credit too for the other masters. SATS is accredited by CHE which is the approved SA accreditor for independent schools. So, SATS is GAAP. For a long time, Unizul accredited SATS. Therefore a SATS degree should be accepted as the prerequisite for entering the doc by a SA Gov University as UNIZUL or another of your liking. But you still would be well advised to contact a school you are interested in for later work to make sure the SATS ThM will be recognized. You might email Bobby Loubser at UNIZUL. It is important, if you plan later doc work in SA, that you do a master's thesis (or as they say there a dissertation). The ability to evidence your powers of research are expected to be found demonstrable in the form of that master's thesis. This is said to be a condition of entering the UNIZUL doc. I think you have chosen well. You are entering a program which has met the standards of the accrediting agency of a government. That is a primary method to determine the quality of a program. Here in the US there are other ways too to measure even an unaccredited seminary degree's standards. For example, do the MDiv or MA graduates of such unaccredited seminaries enter and succeed in PhD/ThD [the DMin is generally less academic] doctoral work in accredited or GAAP seminaries? That could be a standard. Unfortunately it the case that only a few US seminaries without RA or ATS or TRACS accreditation meet even that second standard of acceptability. What that means is, it is more than just the US Gov approved accreditors which think such schools are too "lightweight" [to represent their deficiency in kind terms] , it is also the cumulative opinion of the personnel at accredited seminaries. You will want to remember that in the US docs ,and elsewhere, but not always in SA, you will have to have a knowledge of the Biblical languages. Therefore given the uncertainty of where the doc will be done, make sure you have those skills by the time your ThM is done. To get one person "going straight" makes degree info.com valuable!!!
I agree SATS does seem to be the best option for what you wish to accomplish Shawn. Best to you and your educational pursuit. For those that are enrolled at SATS or have graduated...have you used your degree from SATS form employment purposes other than purely academic employment? If so was it accepted or rejected? If rejected was it rejected because of being done through DL or because it was not a degree from a US school? (I believe I have asked this before in another thread but it was never answered from the position of personal utility, only accreditation which I do not have any issues with whatsoever) I ask this because although it is GAAP and may get you in the door to teach at the University level, and numerous kudos here on Degree Info (and well deserved) would it truly be sufficent to get through a puplit search committee or a church interview? If it can't assist a person in being hired then what is it's relative utility in that regards? Secondly, if you used your SATS degree to pursue a graduate degree, were you able to accomplish that at an USA RA institution, and if so which one? Was it only DL or were you accepted in the traditional program as well? Wouldn't that have to go through an evaulation service first and if so what is the range of their fees? Sorry I do not have Bears book in front of me right now.
=== My Unizul promoter has an educational history somewhat relevant to this. He got his BA from the University of South Africa. Then a ThB from the Baptist Theological College of South Africa. This is a school accredited by Unizul much as was SATS before SATS sought approval from CHE. So, at this point his degrees all were "foreign." I don't know whether they were DL or not, but they were not RA. Then he obtained an MDiv from The Southern Baptist Sewminary in Kentucky and The ThM from Southern Seminary as well before eventually getting the PhD from Natal. What this one example shows is that the SA qualifications can have utility as far as entering a US RA program is concerned. My hunch is that SA schools are more particular about the quality of US schools than US schools are about SA. I was told by Fuller that UZ work which fit would be accepted into the Fuller doc. But as I advised Shawn above, he should inquire of the school he intends later to apply to for doc work about their recognition of the SATS ThM. As to churches hiring ministers I know less even about that. But my hunch is some denominations will wish their applicants to have attended a denominational school or at least a school which endorses the particular distinctives of that denomination whether that school is DL or not. Some churches don't even care whether the school is academically respectable or not as long as it indoctrinates in the dogma of that denomination! On the other hand, a good pal was just hired as associate pastor in a Wesleyan Church whose only training was in a GARB which has much different views on the ordinances and tenets re soteriology. I doubt DL will be the issue as much as beliefs and experiences when it comes to pastoral applicants. Of course I'm thrilled that Shawn may have chosen a GAAP school over some other options, but have as you some reservations as to the universal utility of SATS. But even TEDS, Western, or Dallas at al will NOT give one universal utility. I doubt, eg, a PhD from DTS will be given a professorship in Theology at Brigham Young...so there we are Here I sit unable to progress on the thesis as I lack Martin's Carmen Christi until the morrow Research can be frustratingly slow.
Thank you for your answer. Although I do not agree with you on every issue, I understand where you are coming from, and that has helped me. I personally like the SATS program and am seriously considering it for the Bachelor's portion only. The other US NA option is Tennesse Temple University. SATS would personally fulfil my "religous degree" requirement and is cost effective, yet I am concerned that it would not be accpeted anywhere else but in academia and then with some effort. I am unsure as to why Walston does not approve of the school other than his own personal connection to another SA university. Still waiting on his reponse. The second reason is that I see SATS as a way to truly aid and assist those who have done legitimate work but duped on the issues of accreditation with other institutions. Maybe some of it could be salvaged and the price is doable. That is why I first came on aed.net and this site in the first place, to find a positive solution to fixing some legitimate issues for numerous unacredited degree holders in the religion field. I am already enrolled in a TRACS canidate school on probation status for the M.Div but it is a weekend commute program. Which was not helped by recent major car repairs...
Someone said, maybe Bill, "ask Alan, he is enrolled in SATS." I will tell you my experience. I went to a few institutions (mostly SA) with what I wanted to do with my education from now until I complete an academic doctorate in Biblical Studies. The most helpful and accomodating at this point were SATS and Unizul, though a few others could work for the D.Th./Ph.D. (Unisa, Pretoria (DL PH.D. in OT), and if I was rich, Baptist Bible Seminar (RA Ph.D. in Biblical Studies). Dr. Domeris from SATS recommended a course of action for the M.Th. that would take care of some of my interests and more fully prepare me for doctorate studies, and the rest could be handled at the doctoral level. Now, my situation could be somewhat different than others because I already have a 2 yr. M.A. in OT Studies, so to get in to a SA doctorate in OT would already be possible (several SA institutions have said this). In other words, I am a glutton for punishment by presently taking an M.Th.! So, I am doing a M.Th. in the Archaeology of the Holy Land. What I have learned...if the profs. have the expertise in a certain interest of yours, a program can be built to suit your interests and needs. The program is 1200+ hours, and could be handled? in 1 year on a full-time basis, or 2 years part-time. I am doing a structured M.Th., which means course work and a thesis of 30,000 words. The field is broad (archaeology touches on the history of the biblical text, grammar and lexicography, the history of Israel and early church history (backgrounds/cultural history), comparative literature, and comparative religion). So, much of my course work is intended to given me a broad understanding of the discipline and methods and issues involved, with the need to narrow my focus for the thesis. Dr. Domeris has as well recommended an archaeological dig in Israel, along with an assignment based on it . The work load is very significant, challenging, and exciting! I have talked to the folks at Unizul since entering the SATS program, and I can enter their D.Th. program (of course, I am waiting till I have completed my current studies). It appears I will be able to work out a program with them that would allow me to focus on biblical exegesis and interpretation (utilizing the Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek). If you view their prospectus at this site (http://www.uzulu.ac.za/the/prospectus/rules0.htm) you will see that the "curriculum [for the D.Th.] shall comprise: (a) a prescribed study programme in the field of the subject chosen for the thesis and/or another theological and/or non-theological subject(s) that may be deemed necessary..., and (b) a thesis on an approved subject in the field of specialisation." It has been recommended to me that we would pursue a guided reading programme, a thesis of 60,000 words, and possibly ancillary examinations. The program suits my interests, offers challenging academics (I want to wrestly with the scholarly issues), and is highly affordable. I am thinking seriously about this after my M.Th. As noted in other posts, I have enquired about entrance into Baptist Bible Seminary's program (my dream Ph.D....well maybe I do not dream very big ) after the M.Th. Although, they could not at this time give an an official answer they basically said that, 1) they would evaluate the SATS program like any other international program as far as quality, and accreditation, and 2) they noted that their strong biblical language emphasis may mean me working at langauges now, or doing some catch-up for a Ph.D. I hope this helps somewhat. Please excuse the length.
Bill, Thanks for the Information. I have contacted SATS and have applied. I've sent them my undegrad transcripts which was a Bachelor of General Studies and my transcript for the unaccredited M.S.L. will be sent soon. Can you tell me anything about SATS. What the course work is like and the course materials? Thanks. Shawn
