University of London - DL LLM

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by badpenguin, Oct 7, 2003.

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  1. badpenguin

    badpenguin Member

    Hello!

    I am presently finishing my last year at Brooklyn Law School, and am interested in continuing on.

    From a financial and time perspective, the University of London LLM seems interesting.

    UoL's admission requirements state:

    "have obtained a first degree, in a subject appropriate to the LLM, of an acceptable university outside the European Union, with a result considered by the University of London to be equivalent to at least Second Class Honours. Note: 'a subject appropriate to the LLM' means a first degree with a substantial law content."

    Questions concerning admissions:

    1. Is an American JD equivalent to a "first degree, in a subject appropriate to the LLM" ?

    2. What is the American equivalent to "at least Second Class Honours" ?

    Have any recent JD's out there gone down this path? Would appreciate thoughts and suggestions.

    Thanx!
     
  2. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    Yeah, Nosborne just did. Search the site.
     
  3. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    I am just beginning to study for the London LL.M.

    An American ABA accredited JD is the equivalent of an English first degree in law as far as the University of London is concerned. I think you will find, however, that they want you to have at least a "B"average in order to be considered as having "lower second class honours".

    If you don't meet these requirements, they will also pay attention to your Bar admission.

    BE WARNED. This is a BIG project (I am still dumbstruck) and the University does not TEACH you anything.

    Good luck!
     
  4. badpenguin

    badpenguin Member

    Thanx for the courtesy of a prompt follow-up posting.

    Nosborne, glad to learn that you recently received your materials. Notice that you commented that it was going to be a major undertaking, and that it might be aggressive to sit for your first two exams after one year of study.

    Could you explain a litte bit more in detail? Going through a JD program, taking as many as 12 credits a semester while employed full time certainly has provided challenges, and time management is a skill that is quickly mastered.

    What are the issues, as you see them, that would explain the difficulty in completing two courses within the time frame of two academic semesters? Sheer volume of material? Complexity of material? Lack of study-groups with class mates? "Switching tracks" from American law to English law?

    I understand that UoL does not provide tutorials in any of the courses. Are there any other English institutions (ie Holborn?) that provide additional study materials, and written assignments with instructor feedback, for the UoL LLM program?

    Best of luck with your studies!
     
  5. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    There are no lectures or seminars. Students like me gain much of their grasp of material through discussion and dissection; there is an on line student chat group that I haven't yet explored which may help.

    There is no "tuition"; there are providers of on-line tuition for some subjects but these are expensive costing as much or more than the University's own fees.

    The volume of material is astonishing. The amount of required reading far exceeds ANYTHING I experienced in my JD program. The level of mastery required is an unknown at this point since I have prior exam questions but no answers.
     
  6. warguns

    warguns Member

    LLM exams

    Exams from previous years in many subject are on file at the Senate House Library. I can't think of any reason why they wouldn't make copies avaialble to you throught the mail if you will not be in London.

    Here's the Director of Library Services "[email protected]", Mr C Hunt
     
  7. bo79

    bo79 New Member


    Did you look into the DL LLM program at University of Northumbria?
     
  8. sshuang

    sshuang New Member

    UOL LL.B. & LL.M.

    Is anyone out there who has completed the University of London LL.B. program and is currently working on its LL.M.?
    I am just curious as to the amount of materials one needs to read for LL.B. comparing to LL.M.
     
  9. badpenguin

    badpenguin Member

    Hey! Seems like were back online after a temporary diversion to the comics!

    Nosborne - Re the unknown level of mastery required: I know that there probably are sample exams available out there, but are you aware of any (from UoL, or institutions providing tutorial for $$$) sample answers? Also, how would you characterize the admissions process? Did you experience any difficulties, or was it relatively straight-forward?

    Warguns - Thanx for the info! I'll give it a try. I already have an idea about the 4 courses I would be interested in.

    Bo - Haven't yet, but I will do so. Were/are you in their program?

    Thanx to all!
     
  10. novemberdude

    novemberdude New Member

    Hello,

    University of London LLM tutoring is offered by SPR and Law Tutors Online. They also might be offered by others but these are the two of which I am aware. If anyone needs links let me know.

    Past exams for the LLM are available on the internet. HOWEVER, I had a hard drive crash yesterday so I believe my bookmark is lost on that one. If anyone has the link I would love to have it.
    I found a site with about the last 4-5 years available in most if not all subjects.

    Cheers.
     
  11. novemberdude

    novemberdude New Member

  12. badpenguin

    badpenguin Member

    Novemberdude: Thanx for posts. I located the exams, and took a quick look at the 2002 Admiralty exam. Seems that though there is a choice to answer x out of the y number of questions, quite a few are "policy" questions. Don't think I'd get too much out of reading statutes for this.

    Nosborne: Just curious, as one who has spent $$$ on an ABA accredited first law degree, given the reasonableness of the LLM program ~2000 pounds, dosen't it seem reasonable to consider spening another ~1600 pounds for tutorial? I know its an additional cost, but are there reasons other than cost that you believe private tutorial would not be beneficial to your LLM studies? I looked at the website suggested by Novemberdude, and they look appealing to me. Am I missing something?
     
  13. novemberdude

    novemberdude New Member

    Badpenguin,

    On a personal note, might I ask if Admiralty Law is an interest of yours? I am asking only because I looked at the UoL LLM and my specific area on interest was maritime law. One of the reasons that I didn't pursue the LLM was lack of tutoring availability. If you are interested in maritime law I think that even with just two of us we might be able to work something out in terms of getting tutoring, based on some conversations that I have had with providers of services. If you aren't interested in maritime law, then you have just read this for nothing, sorry.


     
  14. badpenguin

    badpenguin Member

    Novemberdude: Perhaps we can! Although from what I understand, the UoL will only associate one concentration (3 or the 4 required courses) with the LLM, the four courses I am interested in completing would qualify for a concentration in both "Commercial & Corporate Law" and "Maritime Law." The 4 courses I am tentatively interested in are: "Admiralty Law", "Insurance Law", "Marine Insurance", and "Carriage of Goods by Sea".

    Please note that I am presently completing my JD, and will be taking the NY bar in July 2004. The earliest I would be able to take the UoL exams, assuming of course that I am admitted (hopefully won't be a problem), would be Summer 2005, nearly 2 years from.

    If any of this sounds interesting to you, I am certainly open to the idea of studying with another motivated learner.

    Am I wrong, but I think that although Nosborne is interested in Criminal Law, isn't he also interested in Admiralty Law as his fourth course?

    Thanx for the offer!
     
  15. novemberdude

    novemberdude New Member

    I also would not be interested in taking exams prior to 2005. My four courses of interest are: Admiralty Law, COGS, Marine Insurance and Commercial Arbitration. I am in a bit of a special situation with all this, but I have done a fair bit of legwork on the LLM tutoring angle so it might be valuable to compare notes.

    And if Nosbourne is interested in Admiralty Law, we can almost certainly arrange tutoring (assuming I get admitted to the LLM, but I'm confident that that can get sorted out).
     
  16. badpenguin

    badpenguin Member

    Novemberdude: Sounding good! I had also toyed with Commercial Arbitration. Nothing yet is written in stone. I work in the insurance industry, and have professional designations within it. So perhaps Insurance Law would be overkill. Really too early to say at this point.

    If Nosborne, or some other serious students show interest within the next year, perhaps this is something we can work with.

    I have only done a little snooping around re tutors. I like what I see from SPR, but haven't really looked at them very closely.

    Interested to hear your thoughts of what you've been able to learn about UoL LLM tutorial programs.

    I am still curious to learn from those who've been admitted to UoL, how easy or complicated the process is.

    Thanx!
     
  17. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    I found the admissions process to be quite straightforward. The only annoying thing is that they want copies of your diplomas certified by the British Counsel. No other official will suffice. So, you have to send your BA and JD to Washington DC along with a hefty cheque...

    I am taking Admiralty as my fourth subject and would be interested in an on-line study group. SPR offers tuition for all commercial subjects but not, apparently, for the criminology subjects I am primarily interested in,at least not at this time.

    I agree that the LL.M. even WITH the cost of private tuition is quite reasonable except that, for us American lawyers, the degrees are perhaps not as useful as an American degree might be.

    Ultimately, I wanted to be exposed to something beyond the legal mechanics of criminal law. The London program will do that with a vengence! It is worth pointing out, BTW, that there is NO credible American D/L LL.M. in criminology and only ONE resident program, in Buffalo at SUNY.
     
  18. novemberdude

    novemberdude New Member

    Nosbourne,

    Law Tutors Online offer tutoring for one of the Criminal Law subjects, and I know they are interested in expanding their offerings.

    You probably have it but in case not:

    www.lawtutorsonline.co.uk

    If you are interested in contacting them I suggest you talk to Debbie Chay who is incredibly helpful and professional.
     
  19. novemberdude

    novemberdude New Member

    I have actually been admitted to the LLB as a senior status student and I found the admission process to be very straightforward. For the LLB they were quite willing at accept an official copy of my transcript sent directly from the university where I earned my undergraduate degree. I cannot speak for the LLM admission process.

    While I am sure that SPR are very good, for tutoring I elected to go with Law Tutors Online only because of how helpful and (apparently) honest they were. I have only started with them so I cannot comment on the quality of their materials, but as they will tell you they have been audited by some government type quality assurance agency that rated them very highly. SPR and LTO are the only two tutors that I am aware of who offer LLM tutoring, and both seem very good. It probably comes down to who offers what.

    I have some further info about LLM tutoring but that will have to wait for later, I'm off to make my wife lunch!

     
  20. badpenguin

    badpenguin Member

    Nosborne: I've had my degrees "laminated" on wood, for display purposes. Would hate to have to think about mailing those down to DC, bulky and expensive. Does UoL accept transcripts showing the awardance of the degree? If not, maybe there's a British office somewhere in Manhattan that I can schlep my degrees to. But with any luck, maybe transcripts will be ok.

    Novemberdude: It's not fair to judge a business solely by its web site, but on first glance, SPR got my attention moreso than lawtutors. We have plenty of time before selecting the most appropriate tutor. When you have a chance, would be interested in hearing about what you've learned with the LLM tutors. I think I read somewhere that they'll run a course with as few as 4 students. Maybe if we come to them with 2, 3, or more interested students, they might even be willing to give a break on the price. Just a thought.
     

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