I am going to begin my Ed.D in educational administration this summer. I would appreciate any input or advice from people who have attended Oral Roberts University or Liberty. They both seem to have flexible and affordable programs. ORU would be almost all condensed modules during summer and once in the fall and spring. Liberty has 12 hours residential requirements(they also offer intense modules) and the rest appears to be done with DL classes. Any help is appreciated. Maybe I am missing a better program, so I would not mind discussing that either. I live in Wichita, KS and cannot spend a great deal of time away from home. Brian
Hey Brian... I'm sorry that I can't intelligently speak to either program you've referenced...but I have a question for you. Do you feel that your MASL (MA in School Leadership, right?) will get you automatically accepted into an EdD? I ask this because after I complete my MDiv, I have contemplated the EdD pathway to ensure a well-rounded doctoral experience. As I understand it, one must complete an MEd prior to being accepted into an EdD program. In that vein (if I am correct) how does the MASL merit? Kindly, Steven King
Re: Re: ORU or Liberty? Not true. Once upon a time I was accepted into four different Ed.D. programs, ranging from prestigious to convenient. All four had no problem with my M.A. in linguistics/English as a Second Language. I would think the thing that might hold you back from Ed.D. and Ph.D.s in education is a requirement that you have teaching experience (if you do not). I am now working on an M.Ed., but entertain no desire to get an Ed.D. Tom Nixon
Tom, It's great to hear you are working on your MEd...let me run this by you - When I completed my MBA at Touro - I was accepted into their Phd in Educational Leadership (I did not go that way...) . Do you think a program of that nature would have much utility in helping someone break into teaching? Kindly, Steven King
I think we're missing the basic question here: ORU or Liberty? Notwithstanding the methodologies used in each program, the answer is simple: Are you a Pentecostal? Go with ORU. Are you a Baptist or Fundie? Go with Liberty. Are you someone who is neither and who doesn't give a shit? Go with Liberty. Oral Roberts is a joke. Thank you. Thank you very much. And remember, the smartest thing Falwell ever did is not naming his university after himself - like ORU. After all, look what self-naming did for Jimmy Swaggart Bible College . . .
Steven, It's been a long time, I hope you're doing well...what is your take on my question to T Nixon earlier? Kind regards, Steven King BTW, how are your certification pursuits coming?
I feel confident about my ability to get in based upon references, I am not exactly applying to an Ivy League school, and I did well on the GRE. As far as denominations go, I am neither. The thing I am also considering is the "huh" factor. When I tell people here ORU, they have heard of it, but wonder what is wrong with Wichita State(several things). When I mention Liberty, they go "huh"? I agree with the Liberty comment , although JSBC would have been fine if Brother Swaggart had not had his fixation with prostitutes Essentially, I want a doctorate for me. Only me. I want it to be legit, my criteria beyond that is negotiable. Brian
I"ll never tell. (I always leave the audience wanting more.) As for the question: When I completed my MBA at Touro - I was accepted into their Phd in Educational Leadership (I did not go that way...) . Do you think a program of that nature would have much utility in helping someone break into teaching? Teaching what, and at what level (college, grad school, etc.)? As a general rule, subject-specific credentials will be what works best, regardless of the field. Past that point, it depends on the mrket for your specific field and, for better or worse, the old it's-not-what-you-know-it's-who-you-know. I concur with your decision not to go that way, but not because of the field of Educational Leadership. (Such a degree might work best for someone who is already involved in education and simply wants to get a doctorate, not as an entré into education.) The reason I would not go for a Touro Ph.D. is that you have a Touro M.B.A. If you look at an assortment of college catalogues, you'll find that most professors earned their master's and doctorate degrees from different schools (and their bachelor's degree from a third school). The idea is to show breadth and depth, both in terms of background and in terms of actual institutions. Thus, regardless of the field in which you might pursue a doctorate, I would go with a school other than Touro. There are, of course, exceptions to this rule - a person who shows three degrees from Harvard-Harvard-Harvard, for example. But most schools are not Harvard. At one time, I used to recommend the Vermont College M.A.-Union Ph.D. combination (both of which I have myself). However, at the time V.C. was part of Norwich University; now it, too, is part of Union. So if someone intends to pursue a Union Ph.D., I would more quickly recommend that they pursue their masters at Antioch, Goddard, or Lesley if only to show two different parent institutions. As for Educational Leadership as a field, it's too soon to tell. At Union, they offer a major in Philanthropy and Leadership that is popular for persons who want to become college presidents. But as a general field, at this point I tend to think that Educational Leadership falls into the same category as Organizational Management does at the undergraduate level: an in-vogue major that has really not been established, one that people might pursue because they do not have a more specific goal. My recommendation: If it's business you want to teach, consider either a Ph.D. in Business Administration or Management, or even a D.B.A. Again, you would ultimately be hired on your terminal credential in the field in which you hope to teach. Nice seeing you back, too, Steven.
I would never attend ORU. Even if they are academically sound, I would not want to be associated with Oral Roberts in any way, and certainly would not want to give him any of my money. Who knows, it might inspire him to have another vision of the 900 foot Jesus. BLD
== Of Visions and Values Barry I admit I neither am very quick to accept it when others claim to have experienced "visions." I hope in my case this indicates not an undeveloped side of my Christian experience since the two major apostles seemed to have trusted such. But I do have a question in regard to your not wishing to be associated with Oral Roberts "in any way." What occasions my question is my seeming to recall that your DMin is from ACCS. Of course, I know that you know that Woodrow Walton who is the Dean of the Seminary at American Christian has his only doc, DMin, from Oral Roberts. I am assuming Dr Walton was at ACCS when you were. So my question is , while you wish to have nothing to do with Oral Roberts or his university {the former being the reason for the latter} , you yet would see nothing wrong with attending a school where the seminary dean rec'd his education from the school in which you would never enroll?? I can see, of course, that getting instruction from an ORU grad is not the same as getting instruction in ORU or that getting a degree from ORU is not the same as going to a school which makes an ORU grad Dean or that giving ORU money is not the same as giving money to a school that hires OSU grads. So I do see these differences. As for any ill effects of ORU on Dr Walton I cannot speak generally because I really do not know him. But I do know that he is a fellow member of the Evangelical Theological Society which evinces the general proximity of his views to mine, that he has delivered at least one paper to the national meeting of ETS which suggests a scholarliness about the man, and that he is the ONLY DL prof who has has ever taken the time to call me and chat with me about submitted work which indicates a caring for his students. So, my guess is that ORU didn't reduce Dr Walton's testimony or erudition or Christian walk or his values to ashes. And, of course, you did not say it would do so to him. But we all have our own values and maybe some our visions and I respect yours.
Hi Bill, I don't doubt that ORU has many fine scholars and that they do a good job teaching what they need to teach. Dr. Walton would be a good example of that. I also personally don't think that a graduate of ORU is "tainted" in any way. But I have no doubt that many others do not see it that way, and I would rather not have to explain why I graduated from a school that is named after such a loonie (IMO). Does that make sense? BLD
=== Wow you are a fast respondent, thanks. It may make sense, I do not know much about Oral Roberts. How would you feel about going to Bob Jones with its supposed extreme fundi ism and supposed racial prejudice?
As far as I'm concerned Oral Roberts was not that bad. Sure he made uh.....interesting claims about very tall Jesus sightings but its not like he married 30 women...BYU joke. Seriously, anybody on here ever take classes at Liberty? ORU? Maybe not. Brian
Brian H: As far as the "huh" factor goes, that may depend on what part of the country you are from. I have heard of Liberty more than ORU. I know more about Liberty than ORU. But I live on the East Coast. So I would not let that be a big factor in your decision. Have you considered other programs that lead to an Ed.D. (Nova, Argosy, Univ. of Nebraska-Lincoln?) There are many choices out there. All have minimal residencies. Do a search on this site with those school names and you will learn about the programs and get links to the websites. Duff
Just my 2 cents here but I'd look at all the programs in that field before I resorted to either of these 2 colleges. I only say this b/c everyone associates Oral Roberts with Oral Roberts and everyone associates Liberty with Jerry Falwell. Regardless of whether he named the school after himself people still know it's the Jerry Falwell School. At least a lot of people do. Same with Bob Jones etc. The thing about religious schools is that if you are trying to work in a secular workplace you are automatically alienating certain individuals who might have an initial gut reaction seeing something like Oral Roberts U or Liberty on your resume. They will probably automatically assume that you are a fundamentalist. And I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that. I am just saying that if you aren't of that religious mindset you may get tagged as such anyway. Having said that, a lot of times they offer the best programs. I've heard good things about Liberty and if I had to choose b/t the 2 and they were my only choices I'd go with Liberty b/c I know plenty who have gone through them and I know no one going through ORU. Liberty does strive to have a very academic program from what I have heard. They do require too much on campus stuff at too high a price for me.
