TESC or Excelsior? Advice needed from Brazil

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Giancarlo, Mar 8, 2001.

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  1. Giancarlo

    Giancarlo New Member

    First of all, kudos for this new discussion group: it’s a pity, but the old and once glorious AED is now really unbearable and, what’s worst, useless.
    Now, to the point.
    I need some advice to decide whether to enroll at TESC or at Excelsior to earn a B.A.. I am Italian, currently living in Brazil, and I have several credits earned in Italy years ago. I sent my papers to two different Credit-equivalency evaluation agencies: the Educational Credential Evaluators (ECE), as requested by Regents College (now Excelsior) and the World Education Services (WES), as suggested by TESC.
    According to ECE, each of my Italian year-long courses is worth six U.S. credits; in WES’ evaluation, the equivalency rises to seven credits. When I was enrolled in a major Italian University, I completed eight different year-long courses toward a Major in Political Science: Sociology, Contemporary History, Ancient History, Economic History, History of the Labor Movement, History of Political Institutions, History of Political Doctrines, Political Philosophy.
    So, according to ECE, I have the equivalent of 48 U.S. semester credits; according to WES, the number rises to 56. Most of them are A scores, a couple of B and, in the WES’ evaluation, one C. Neither ECE nor WES specify if the are lower or upper credits – a distinction that doesn’t exist in Italy.
    I have also challenged a Portuguese Language Proficiency Test at New York University, achieving the maximum score, equivalent to up to 16 credits – TESC used to recognize this test.
    I am a journalist, with a large experience as a foreign correspondent, and I am the author of a couple of books on Latin American politics. As Steve Levicoff once suggested in an answer to a old posting of mine in the AED, at TESC I could easily use my professional experience to earn many credits by portfolios.
    On the other end, TESC requires the Toefl exam to enroll, and Excelsior (unless it has changed along with the name) does not. The Test of English as a Foreign Language is not very hard, but it still is quite a pain in the neck – beside the fact that it costs 100 dollars to take.
    Last but not least, either TESC and Excelsior refused to give any advice about the acceptability of my credits prior to the application. In the case of TESC, applying would imply to take the Toefl.
    Considering all the above, TESC seems to be the best choice for me, but I still have some doubts, that I hope some poster could help to work out.
    1.The credits I have (56 + 16, in the best option) are likely to be accepted in the distribution requirements? What institution is more liberal in this matter: TESC or Excelsior? This is a very important point, because I would like to complete my B.A. as soon as possible.
    2.I would go for a major in Political Science or Journalism. Suggestions about the distribution? What’s the best option to use all my credits?
    3.Still talking about distribution, if I remember well, the old Regents had no requirement of college math credits. It is still true? I have not solved a second degree equation since I left the high-school, and it’s going to be tough… Any advice?
    4.What institution is likely to be more friendly and/or helpful with a student living outside the U.S.? One year ago, Regents started an assistance program to promote enrollments in Brazil, but I don’t know if it is still working or if it was discontinued. By the way, this is the reason I don’t consider COSC an option: when I wrote to them, they gently but firmly discouraged me from applying.
    5.Does anybody have a first-hand experience (or a reliable report) about completing a U.S. DL degree from abroad? I mean: it is REALLY possible?

    Thank you very much.
     
  2. Dennis

    Dennis New Member

     
  3. levicoff

    levicoff Guest

    Let's use this to jump ahead to the TOEFL factor . . . If you can apply 56 credits to TESC and only 48 to Excelsior, you will be saving both time and money by not having to do an extra 8 credits. This should ameliorate both the hassle and cost of the TOEFL exam if you have to take it for TESC.

    You may want to make sure they still recognize it. Again, it would add to your overall total of credits, a further savings in both time and money.

    True. Also remember that you can use your books - and any articles you have written - in multiple areas. Even if they were not written in English, you could translate them yourself and probably get credit for your written skills area.

    You may want to verify this with TESC in light of your occupation and publishing experience. If your post is any indication, you clearly have more of a command of the English language than other non-native English speakers. Provide enough documentation of your language skills, and you may be exempt from the TOEFL.

    Example of how this principle worked for me at TESC: When I did my B.A., persons who entered TESC with less than 30 college credits had to take basic skills tests in writing and math. Most people passed the basic skills test in writing, and most (including me) failed the basic skills test in math because it had been so many years since we used concepts in algebra, geometry, etc. Those who failed either component had to take a remedial course for no credit in order to continue. However, I found out that TESC would waive the remedial requirement if you got credit for a math-based computer course. (They did not advertise this in their literature, but I had inquired about options.) So I went out and learned how to program in BASIC, took the TECEP exam, had the remedial math requirement waived, and got three credits for the TECEP.

    Based on everything you have said, I would agree that TECEP will provide you with more immediate credit. Keep in mind however, that we are all loyal to our alma mater. Therefore, as a TESC grad I certainly favor them (especially since Regents - ooooops, Excelsior - is longer a state college), while Regents grads will favor their alma mater.

    I cannot speak about Excelsior, but can tell you that you can probably use the 56+16 at TESC somewhere. The starting point is quite simple: Draw up a form that lists the broad areas in which you need credit, then pop the credits into the right places on the form. If they do not fit anywhere else, pop them into the Liberal Arts Electives or Free Electives areas.

    Yes. Remember that at TESC, Journalism comes under the category of Humanities, while Political Science comes under the category of Social Sciences. Social Sciences has more specific requirements for the major (such as credit in sociology and statistics) that you will not find in the Humanities. Also, one degree is probably a B.A. (Journalism) while the other is a B.S. (PoliSci). Therefore, you will find more flexibility in Journalism than PoliSci.

    Again, I am not familiar with Excelsior's current requirements, but it would not surprise me if they do have a math requirement. When I did my B.A., TESC required three credits in math or computer science; I understand that they now require three credits in each of math and computer science. Also remember that computer science means a course (or exam) in computers that has a math component (BASIC, PASCAL, COBOL, etc.); it does not mean a computer applications course (like MS Word, Powerpoint, web design, etc.).

    Hmmmmmmmm . . . At one time, Charter Oak was restricted to residents of New England. They have since expanded, but to me their primary drawback is that all of their degrees are essentially in general studies.

    I can't compare TESC and Excelsior in terms of their ability to serve foreign students, although both have a good track record in terms of serving members of the American military who are serving abroad. One other factor to consider: At one time, people chose Regents over TESC because of the name (University of the State of New York). Now that Regents has become privatized, it is not only no longer a university in name, it is not even a state college.

    Of course. All things are possible except squeezing toothpaste back into a tube. I'm afraid that the only experience I have had with foreign students is at the graduate level in terms of fellow students at Vermont College and The Union Institute. On the other hand, I've never heard anything bad about these schools vis-a-vis non-U.S. students.
     
  4. arivacoba

    arivacoba New Member

    I am pretty sure you would pass the TOEFL with flying colors without much effort. I mean, your command of English is quite good, in my naive opinion.

    Speaking about TESC, I think that the TOEFL thing is needed only if you do not have credits for English Composition or equivalent. 6 credits are required in this area for any degree awarded at TESC. On the other hand, Excelsior does require that you have those credits also, although you can complete them using a test: I do not remember if it is the CLEP with essay or the GRE Writing assesment. Something very similar happens at COSC, so I think that it is unavoidable to demostrate proficiency and command of English. After all, it is a program given in English and it's very reasonable. I do not know how you would fill the 6 credits on English Composition, but seems to me that it would be worthy to check if TEST would accept CLEP exams to apply in this area, and in liue of TOEFL. I personally fulfilled this requirement taking courses at Chemeketa Community College (It was fun, cheap, and I ended improving a lot my writing skills).

    I think that either for Journalism or Political Science, you'll end with an B.A. Now, I am not sure how your credits would distribute, but I am almost sure you would have to do some coursework anyway. I am sure that they have at least a requirement for credit in American Government (that would be easy, in my opinion) and macroeconomics (not so easy), and would bet money that also there is a requirement for statistics. Perhaps the Statistics could be used to fulfill the math requiremnts, also.

    I do not know about Excelsior (just to satisfy my curiosity: does the name change itch you as much as it seems to itch our american fellows?), but TESC staff was very helpful when I inquire them, although they took their time. COSC staff is just SUPER. And this thing about the program being closed to foreigners is just not true. Or perhaps they think I am in New Mexico [​IMG]

    I guess that your best option would be TESC. Just be sure to check all the requirements. The best luck to you,

    Aaron


    PS. I really would like to have a speller on-line. Would be that possible, Chip?
     

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