Theological Degrees: Vision University, Trinity Bible College, Columbia Evan. Seminar

I'm searching for anyone with information or recommendations on three bible/theology colleges I'm looking at. None are accredited by the regional bodies or the AABC.

Columbia Evangelical Seminary in Washington state comes right out and states it's non-accredited but that it has been endorsed by John Bears himself as a valid college. Cost is $80 per credit at the bachelors level.

Trinity Bible College & Seminary in Newburgh, Indiana is accredited by The National Association of Private Nontraditional Schools and Colleges (NAPNSC). I know nothing of the NAPNSC, but their web site says the NAPNSC is in the process of seeking recognition by the United States Department of Education. Beyond the accreditation issue is something that I did find intriguing. Trinity is endorsed by Canterbury Christ Church University in England. They charge $125 per credit at the bachelors level.

Lastly, Vision International College and University which is based in Australia. They are apparently accredited by VETAB (Vocational Education and Training Accrediting Board) in New South Wales, Australia. They are located at:

NSW Vocational Education & Training Accreditation Board
Level 14, 1 Oxford Street Darlinghurst NSW 2010
Locked Bag 21 Darlinghurst NSW 1300

They also state they have have Bahamas Accreditation accredited by the Ministry of Education of the Commonwealth of the Bahamas through the Bachelors degree.

Ministry of Education of the Bahamas
P.O. Box N-3913/4
Island of New Providence, Bahamas

Does anyone have any insight into these "bible colleges" and if so please share whatever good or bad you may be aware of.

thanks very much,
Jeff

 

Columbia Evangelical Seminary

If I am not mistaken Dr. James White teaches at Columbia Evangelical Seminary. FWIW, I can vouch for Dr. White being a true scholar (www.aomin.org). Among his many accomplishments, he was one of the translators of the NASB. Some time ago I was considering a BA in Phil. from there, but I have since sought an RA school instead. If I remember correctly, the other profs. have very legit qualifications.

A friend of mine (who already has an RA BA) is taking courses from there and he has made the occasional comment about the impressive quality of the school.

I have no idea about the others.

 

I would definitely avoid Trinity and Vision. CES is a unique school. From what I know of them, your education there would rest largely on who you choose as your mentor. There are other choices out there. Check out Baker's Guide

 

If theological study at the predoctoral level is the goal then there are many RA, NA, foreign GAAP schools offering DL degrees to meet your needs. I advise you choose one of these.

I took several classes from Trinity. While the school's history of deceptive touting of the European connection as providing utility, acceptance, and accreditation of Trinity's degrees is what most upsets me about TTS, the school also has some academic faults as well. It is not my experience that student-teacher interaction there spurs the student toward higher learning. I do not see the use of the same materials and the overlap in objectives between BA and doc students as conducive to learning at one's own degree level. I feel profs at times do not even carefully read submissions nor do their comments on these lead into further learning.

Yet Trinity is being considered for RA this Nov. It is my hope that T. will be found wanting. But if the school becomes accredited, even then I would not recommend it due to its long history of deception and lack of integrity.

 

I agree with Bill. Please search the forum using the terms "Trinity" and "Newburgh" (you'll get extraneous material on TC&U; it does not relate to your question). See also material relating to Master's Divinity School in Evansville. If this outfit gets RA, so much the worse for RA.

Dr James White is an impressive writer. If he were not utterly at variance with us on the theology of the sacraments, I would very happily use a number of his books in adult ed at my church. Dr Walston is an engaging fellow, judging by his soliloquies on the CES website. Since CES has no accreditation, though, it may be less than the sum of its parts. My belief is that Walston is pretty much WYSIWYG, but that a degree from his school would possess infinitely less utility than one from an accredited school.

Vision looks fairly evanescent, but I don't know that for sure. Again, lack of accreditation will not serve you well.

Best wishes to you.

 

All three schools are degree mills, and all three schools are a joke.

Time to practice your research skills by using the "search" function at the top of this screen for the many posts that have been written about all of them.

Next!

 

These schools are degree mills by Levicoff's definition, which allows for no middle ground.

Most people would not consider these schools to be degree mills. A degree from these schools would, however, be somewhat less useful than one from an accredited school.

 

James White may be an impressive writer. But I don't know what part CES had in enabling him to be so if he is in fact one. I understand that Dr. White's ThD from CES was pretty much granted for work already done on his books. If I am wrong, I'm sorry.

White has taken some heat from Mormon apologists because of his unaccredited doc. Possibly this exemplifies the baggage unaccredited/ non GAAP degrees must carry. Understand I am not saying good work cannot be done in unaccredited schools. I just wonder why if one wishes to put considerable time and energy into education why not do it in a manner that is more widely recognized than a school which has no genuine accreditation and very limited utility. As a matter of fact, it is my understanding that in some states White's doc could not be used in secular contexts as in university teaching. Such may not impair the efficacy of his writing, but it does place some qualification on having an unspotted reputation with those outside the conservative Christian church such as those Mormon apologists and the ODA authorities.

I know if I someday can say "My DTh. is from Zululand" I might here in the USA be rewarded with lifted eyebrows and giggles over that name. But I hope no one will be whispering in the corner that my degree is from a mill or that I got my degree the easy way. A BA from CES, Vision, or Trinity btw will not get one into even the UZ GAAP MA. But that perception of the limited quality , whether true or not, and the very real reduced utility of an unaccredited degree is the millstone around Dr White's neck as CES is not accredited. Is White functioning well even with it there? You bet! Excellent work, Dr White does! But why have that vulnerability to the criticism he's received because of it and weight of limitations around one's neck at all? Why not go accredited?

The issue should not be could a nonaccredited school possibly work for your needs ; the question should be , why even consider unaccredited at all?

 

Right, Bill.

The best one could do is to brag on going to the same school White went to, as though there were such a thing as vicarious dissertationment.

 

See http://aomin.org/CrEd2.html for one of several articles written by White on the subject.

If I am not mistaken was not RC's undergrad work unaccredited?

White is an apologist and he is going to have the ad hominem regardless. The truth is, White can hold his own and I have never seen anyone challenge his education in a formal debate. I have seen/heard MANY! White's reputation as an apologist is superb and he has an unaccredited degree.

Having said that, I chose not to go to CES because they were not RA. In most cases, the unaccredited degree is lacking serious utility. Dr. White and Dr. Sproul are atypical examples. It is also important to point out that White and RC do have accredited graduate degrees. This, I am sure, alleviates many potential problems.

PS. In one of Whites articles he states that he was offered an accredited PhD for his previous work. He wanted ThD, so he declined.

 

===


I thought I did not slight White's efforts as an apologist. I know little about that. IMO, though, he seems not to understand Berkof on trinal relationships whom he quotes[ compare White's The Forgotten Trinity, 168-174 with Berkof's Systematic Theology].

I thought I said good work could be done in an unaccredited school. However those doing unaccred docs should expect questions. White's ed background IMO is a fair target for his polemical opponents.

White's agony over cost and moving to acquire anything but an unaccredited doc is confusing since some GAAP schools are very inexpensive and require no relocation. In fact one USA RA Baptist Seminary offers a ThD with just short visits.
So, I think White is batting at a straw man here.

To suggest that theological, at least in OT, NT, or Syst Theol, dissertations must be useful for the church at large IMO could be a slap at those theologians who spend their doctoral study years in a topic so narrow and obtuse the dissertation is hardly fare at least right out of the oven for the use in the pulpit or Sunday School.

The ThD in the USA is generally based not on a 1-2 year MA but on a four year ThM. Check out the new Masters Seminary program or the former DTS programs as examples. The Masters Seminary (not the one affiliated with TTS) takes 3-5 years past the four year ThM. So, one is looking at a minimum of 7 years of full time study to earn the ThD. That also ,and maybe more, is what I will have in my program.

Again, I do not wish to question White's apologetical erudition, but I stand by my observations on his choice of school for doc study. But it was his decision and he certainly has survived it.

 

My comments were not to you or anyone specific for that matter. I have read and frequently use Berkof's ST, but I have never read White's book on the Trinity (I'm going through Dr. Robert Morey's at the moment).

Again, my comments were not to you in particular. I disagree about it being a "fair" target when considering his current opponents (Dave Hunt comes to mind).

I don't know enough about this level of education to agree or disagree with any certainty. However, I lean towards agreeing with you.

Come on now! This is a caricature of what White actually said. Who's building straw-men?

Believe it or not, Dan Cowen from the Masters College just called me! I broke the news to him that I was declining the acceptance offer into their accelerated program, but that I would most likely be applying to the Masters Seminary for next year. Although I am kind of leaning towards Westminster Theological Seminary at this point. My Greek should be fine, but I'm far behind the preq. Hebrew though - gotta get moving!

Again, I do not know enough about this level of education - I plead ignorance

 

I’d be interested in thoughts on Southern California Center for Christian Studies (SCCCS) www.scccs.org and Bahnsen Theological Seminary www.scccs.org/bts/default.asp

A friend of mine is considering this as an affordable alternative to traditional seminary. I have heard that the course work is quite difficult – anyone have any experiences? My friend would be pursuing this for personal rather than professional reasons. I'm seeking info on the quality of education.

P.S. I am a fan of Bahnsen’s apologetic, but I become hesitant when discussing Theonomy with fellow Van Tillian fans. I didn't want to be confused with Theonomists .

 

Berkhof (Hendrikus or Louis), not Berkof.

 

Hmmm...I see you are one of those.

Here you go: Lue Burkoph

Dis ain't no spelin be - it a mesug forum

 

Re: Theological Degrees: Vision University, Trinity Bible College, Columbia Evan. Sem

Columbia Evangelical Seminary: Programs are organized around mentor-student relationships. Legitimate, but tiny and, of course, no accreditation. No degree mill, but I wouldn't recommend it to most folks. The founder and president, Rick Walston, is author of the Walston's Guide distance learning handbook, and I consider him one of the good guys.

TCB&TTS: The "accreditation" statement is misleading because, in the UK, accreditation usually means the authority to award degrees on another institution's behalf--for example, Leo Baeck College is accredited by the Open University, meaning that it offers instruction leading to Open University degrees. This is, of course, not the case with Trinity-Newburgh. NAPNSC is a legitimate but tiny and unrecognized ma-and-pop accreditor that will probably never be authorized by the U.S. Department of Education or Council on Higher Education Accreditation. That said, TCB&TTS isn't exactly a degree mill either--you do have to work to earn their degrees, even if those degrees have limited academic value. And, fair or not, TCB&TTS is probably the most established unaccredited correspondence Bible college in the country, as it has been featured in full page Christianity Today advertisements and received endorsements from a few heavyweights in the Southern Baptist Convention.
TCB&TTS should not be confused with the far worse Trinity College and University.

Vision: Name doesn't ring a bell, but I would be suspicious of any school in Australia that gets its accreditation from the Bahamas, since Australia has its own accreditation standards.

I second Bill Grover's recommendation--if you want to study theology by distance learning on the cheap, get thee to South Africa. You'll have a better selection of programs to choose from, and they'll actually be cheaper than most of the unaccredited U.S. alternatives.

Good luck!


Cheers,

 

One of whats?

If the Michigaanse Broederbond comes after you with a sharpened wooden shoe,
the Kiddie Kristian Komix version of the Heidelberg Catechism, and a box of fish sticks,
don't say you weren't warned. Remember, ole Louie ain't just a Calvinist tribal god,
he's a West Michigan culture hero as well. Have a kuypered herring--tasty!

Now, real gutbucket Calvinists go with Herman Hoeksema, cruisin' up an' down Ivanrest Avenue annihilating the supralapsed.

Me, I just go to Garn Tarpits to buy books and then get my genuine Gnesio heinie outta there. Yessir, they's an official Christian Reformed golf course in the Holy City where you can knock little white balls (only kind there is, natch) all over a world-and-life view, lookin fer holes. Skeered me half to liberalism, so I threw an inkpot at Baker Book House and drove fast as I could home, dodgin' deer and undocumented farm labor all the way.

Remember, cherry juice cures everything including several kinds of death.

"If they cannot spell the Berkhof whom they have seen,
how shall they spell the Groen van Prinsterer whom they have not seen?"

Read your Bible, son, the hour is hastening on.

 

BWAHAHAHA

Too funny janko! I just read it a second time and laughed!

Rev. Hoeksema seems to be creeping up frequently in my conversations lately and yet I have never read the man. He has now made it to my lengthy "To Read List." So many books...so little time.

 

Herman Hoeksema was one of the founders of the Protestant Reformed Church that was founded out of a quarrel in the Christian Reformed Church concerning common grace. I've read some of his writings and prefer Anthony Hoeksema to Herman. The Christian Reformed Church was troubled not too long ago due to the ordination of women issue. Because of all the controversey in the Reformed churches the United Reformed Church recently developed. Not too many years ago the Congregational Reformed Fellowship was organized. Where would we be without all the reformers? Where's Servetus when you need him?

 

Re: Re: Theological Degrees: Vision University, Trinity Bible College, Columbia Evan. Sem

Yes, you might want to check out South African Theological Seminary.