Forget IT, Australian students told

Discussion in 'IT and Computer-Related Degrees' started by decimon, Jul 8, 2003.

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  1. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member

    Continued...

    So, how is IT in your tech of the woods?
     
  2. manjuap

    manjuap New Member

    I think the same thing will happen to IT .. what happened to Manufacturing sometime back. You might have seen 95% of the things are "made in china"
     
  3. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member

    There's been a focus on outsourcing for that being an emotional issue. "Our" jobs going out there somewhere gets people's blood up. I'm more interested in the overall status of IT jobs. Where are the opportunities would be my question.

    Outsourcing on the part of U.S. companies is seen as a perfidious pursuit of pecuniary particulars but I think it may be more a factor of maturing IT sectors.
     
  4. roysavia

    roysavia New Member

    I agree with you decimon. The industry is no longer looking at "in house" resources. Outsourcing has now become a way of life in the IT industry.
    It's too bad for the Australians, but how far behind are we before our society is saturated with taxi drivers holding I.T. degrees?
     
  5. manjuap

    manjuap New Member

  6. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member

    Is the situation that bad? I'm looking for input.

    If the situation is that bad then what is to be done about it? I'm in the U.S. so I'll ask what in the U.S. should be done about it. Should there be laws against American companies outsourcing work to other countries? If there are such laws then foreign companies will step into the void left by the American companies and the U.S. will lose entire industries.

    My preference would be to lower taxes and eliminate onerous regulations that make doing business in the U.S. needlessly expensive.
     
  7. Jeff Walker

    Jeff Walker New Member

    The answer is to be good at your job. The software industry is going through this right now, with unemployment among programmers very high. But more than most industries, there are huge productivity differences between really good programs, average programs, and bad programmers. Yet they all cost roughly the same. If programmers weren't so expensive and IT projects didn't fail the majority of the time, outsourcing would certainly slow down.

    There are US programming shops that manage to consistently deliver and these will always be able to get work.
     
  8. roysavia

    roysavia New Member

    Federal legislation preventing foreign outsourcing may be part of the answer. The I.T. industry is one of the most expensive industries in America today. Companies are always looking for ways to streamline their expenses and outsourcing their I.T. infrastructure happens to be a solution for them.

    Jeff does make a valid point. If you are exceptional at your job then chances are your duties will not be outsourced to a foreign outfit.
     
  9. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member

    I can recall when virtually anyone with a programming credential could get a job as a programmer. Get a job with company A and then leave for a better job with company B before company A caught on to the low level of work done. That situation couldn't last forever.

    And the IT departments were like priesthoods. Upper management hadn't a clue as to what was going on in the IT departments but knew data processing to be vital to the enterprise. The IT managers therefore built themselves their empires. That situation couldn't last.

    So, is the current situation abnormal or a return to normalcy?
     
  10. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member

    I would expect from that a negative effect. National protectionism creates an artificially high price for the product/service in question which raises the cost of business for all dependent on that product/service. That makes the industries of the "protected" nation less competitive with the industries of other nations.

    And, of course, it ultimately comes at the expense of the consumer. My protected wage becomes your lessened purchasing ability. My higher standard of living becomes your lower.
     
  11. GENO

    GENO New Member

    MIS,IT,IS whatever you call it is nothing but a service center to the corporation and not a money maker like other areas. I have heard this for nearly 30 years of being in software development.
    The mystique of computers has worn thin over the years and everyone has a basic understanding of the capabilities of what computers can and cant do and nearly everyone is an expert in using these machines. Solving business problems with computer solutions is far more than an attractive web page - its heavy file processing, logical file design with select/omit criteria, screen flow and user authority issues and EDI documents that did not transmit or EXCEL spreadsheet that did not upload/download.
    You dont outsource dedication and loyality and commitment - you only outsource code-humpers. Why does the corporate executive get a golden parachute when released but the average joe gets a lead-lined ?
     
  12. roysavia

    roysavia New Member

    Unfortunately this is the current situtation. I.T. departments can no longer hide behind partitions or walls away from the ears and sight of management. Companies today are relying more on stringent business plans. Corporate executives are being kept up to speed on all IT developments including who-is-who, where are we now technologically, are we efficient, where will we be 5, 10 and 15 years from now, what operating systems to we utilize and will they play a useful role tomorrow.
    If a company's IT department can't "keep up with the Jones", they look at outsourcing as a means of remaining competitive (especially in todays economy).
     
  13. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member

    The corporation I retired from outsourced its DP and telecommunications to IBM and who-I've-forgotten, respectively. Why do those things "sui generis" and at higher cost when others can do them at less expense and to current standard?
     
  14. roysavia

    roysavia New Member

    In some cases it depends on the terms and conditions of the contract between the client and the supplier. IBM is a relatively expensive source for IT support. The difference between IBM and a "less expensive" alternative may have to do with customer service and network support (would a lower paid IT employee of the company respond to a call at 3:00am in the morning when a Server goes down?)
     
  15. manjuap

    manjuap New Member

    You are perfectly right.
     
  16. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member

    I too agree. IBM established the perpetual service model with its mainframe systems. Little flash to the IBM system but then who wants "flash" at 3:00 AM and no dash till 9:00 AM?

    BTW - I've rolled out of bed at in the AM hours too many times myself.
     
  17. themode

    themode New Member

    I'm not sure that the OZ IT market is a good barometer for outsourcing trends.

    while the Australian IT community is world class , the country is not a major original software exporter ( - 14 billion ). Also their trade and investment ties with the Asia Pacific region may expose their indigenous IT sector to more intensive and fluid labor competition than is experienced in the US and Western Europe.

    The projections that I've seen suggest that outsourcing may come to comprise 10-15% of US IT expenditures within the next decade. These will primarily displace the lower end of IT functions ( eg. customer support ). Outsourcing of software development and other high skill trades will undoubtedly increase , but growth in domestic IT demand is expected to outpace this trend. That is , net domestic demand for IT skills is expected to increase.

    any analysis at this time is complicated by the residual affects of the IT spending bubble that we're coming out of. I do think that many aspects of IT services will continue to commoditize , but this trend may be met by an increase in demand for high skill / value software and network engineering or a sort that deserves the moniker 'engineer'.
     
  18. themode

    themode New Member

    The following US BLS Occupational Analysis provides a forecast of hiring trends for software engineers to 2010.
    Computer Software Engineers .

    an important distinction , which is not readily apparent in this analysis , should be recognized between software engineers and software programmers . The BLS data provides a seperate , and less optimistic , forecast of hiring trends for programmers. The key differentiators here seems to be educational attainment , work experience, and job roles.

    a related news article that I'd come across , which was based on BLS data, reported that demand for 'computer services' positions is expected to increase by 100% through 2010.
     

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