Would like advice on CS degree

Discussion in 'IT and Computer-Related Degrees' started by LBussy, Sep 28, 2002.

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  1. LBussy

    LBussy New Member

    Hello all. I found this discussion forum after searching (I LOVE Google!) for information on ACCIS. So far so good.

    What I am looking for is a school or schools that:

    1. Have "RA" accreditation (is that the correct term?)
    2. Will be readily accepted by future employers
    3. Will be readily accepted if I choose to finish with an MBA or MCS
    4. Is mostly to fully online
    5. Is a true CS degree, not CIS or IT
      [/list=1]

      Any suggestions on schools? Any suggestions on who to stay away from? :)
     
  2. StevenKing

    StevenKing Active Member

    BSCS at Touro University International -

    Check it out at http://www.tourou.edu.

    Steven King
    MBA, Touro University International
    BA, Bethany College
     
  3. I am taking undergraduate CS courses at University of Southern Queensland. Assuming you are in U.S., however, I would not recommend USQ for an undergraduate degree.

    I think Touro International is a lousy choice.

    Good U.S. options are:
    • NJIT (Exceptionally strong, even by traditional "bricks & mortar" standards, but expensive).
    • Limestone
    • Troy State
     
  4. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    Lee: For a non-scientist, what's the difference between CS, CIS, and IT? Thanks. Janko
     
  5. LBussy

    LBussy New Member

    Wow, responses already! Thanks guys.

    One thing I am missing is how one can rate these schools. I suppose that's the purpose of these forums? It's a tough thing to select something on the Internet that will affect your whole life.

    Thanks again for the replies, I'll check those links out.
     
  6. LBussy

    LBussy New Member

    CS is Computer Science which is generally considered the more technical of the three degrees. It highlights the tchnology of the trade where the other courses generally have a more broad approach encompassing the business as well.

    I'm an IT Manager presently and from experience I can say that in the trenches, CS is generally preferrable however personally I feel experience is the key.

    For me, CS is my goal. If you look at any of the links provided you can see some of the other Computing technology degrees offered and the differences between them.
     
  7. StevenKing

    StevenKing Active Member

    Please qualify your sentiment...

    Since this is not my chosen path - would you mind clarifying your vehemence for Touro's BSCS program?

    The original poster listed the following:
    Touro is regionally accredited - and would certainly be accepted by future employers. This poster could spring into an MBA...even with Touro. Touro's degrees are completely online and finally, it's a true CS degree.

    Kindly,
    Steven King
     
  8. StevenKing

    StevenKing Active Member

    Rating schools...

    Unfortunately, if you ask ten people this question, you'll inevitably get ten different answers. One thing we can all agree on - make sure it's regionally accredited, as you have stated is your desire.

    Steven King
     
  9. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    Thanks for the explanation, Lee. Best of luck.
     
  10. majkutp

    majkutp New Member

    Janko,
    This is from my own personal experience being out in the technical IS/IT field:

    CS (Computer Science) is generally good for people who want to get into development such as programming in C++, C, Java, Perl, COM, Visual Basic, etc. The degree is usually extremely heavy in math and is logic based.

    MIS (Management Information Systems) is a mixture of business and IS/IT. It is less math intense. Some schools have it as a concentration under their undergraduate business program and others have it as its own degree. Usually you will have to take some marketing, finance, accounting, and economics classes. A MIS degree is more theory based. They get jobs working in networking, databases, e-commerce, IT/IS project management, some web development, etc. System Admin type stuff.

    CIS (Computer Information Systems) is similar to a cross between MIS and CS. Again, some schools have it as a concentration under their undergraduate business program and others have it as its own degree. This is a great degree for someone who isn’t math intense like the CS degree and they still want to get into programming. It is also not as business oriented compared to the MIS degree – although I say that lightly since it can be listed as a concentration in an undergrad business administration program. So you can get the best of both worlds in this program if you want to get into programming without having to be math top heavy.

    IT/IS is pretty much all of the above. Now for the monkey wrench. The job ideas I gave above are not set in stone, so someone who has an IS/IT related degree can jump around where they, their skills, and their employer sees fit.

    -Paul Majkut

    __________________

    B.S. Business Admin: MIS concentration - University of Massachusetts, Lowell
    MCSE
    M.A. in Christian Apologetics (two more classes left) - Biola University
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 29, 2002
  11. How you rate the schools will depend on what you hope to get out of the program. People have many different goals, but generally these can be considered along two dimensions: the desire for the credential (in this case the BSCS), and the desire for the education. Different people's goals will lie at different points in this two dimensional space. Of course, credential and education are not mutually exclusive -- in fact, somewhat orthogonal.

    If you want/need only the credential, then any regionally accredited BSCS may suffice. If you are in the U.S., then I suggest you avoid foreign programs at the bachelor's level (despite any hype you may hear about "GAAP").

    In my case, I already had 3 degrees in another technical field, including a terminal degree from a "name brand" university. So another credential would not be of much use to me. I had been working in the IT field for over a decade. But I had no formal academic education in computer science. So I am after a solid undergraduate education in computer science, without much concern about the final credential itself. So my comments should be seen in this light.

    When evaluating undergraduate computer science programs, a key resource is the IEEE/ACM "Computing Curricula" document. This 240 page document is intended to be all-encompassing, so the minimal set of requirements that it lays out is rather sparse. But if you go into the document in a little more depth, you can identify the expected features of a strong CS program. Another useful source of information is the ABET/CAC computing accreditation guidelines. Even though your chosen program may not be ABET or CSAB accredited, you want to be sure that there are no major academic deficiencies compared to the ABET/CAC expectations.
     
  12. The following, which I got from SJSU, explains some of the computer-related degrees at SJSU. But different schools do implement the various majors differently.

    Computer Science
    Computer Science is concerned with the fundamental knowledge that enables the design of computers and the software that runs on them.

    What You Will Study in Computer Science?
    Calculus and other mathematics topics, physics, programming, computer organization and architecture, data structures and algorithms, operating systems, formal languages and computability, software engineering, and courses from two tracks in the following areas: graphics, artificial intelligence, computation theory, scientific computing, software engineering, distributed computing, programming languages, networking and laboratory computing.

    What Core Skills Will You Have Upon Graduation?
    You will have the ability to program computers and to understand the theory than underlies programming. You will be knowledgeable in the software systems that are required for the operation of computers and the theory of programming languages. Through your choice of specialization areas you will proficient in two of the areas listed.

    What Jobs Will You Be Prepared For?
    Programmer, systems analyst and software developer, customer support.

    Computer Engineering
    Computer Engineering is concerned with the design of computers, both hardware and software, and with the design of systems in which computers are an element (embedded systems).

    What You Will Study in Computer Engineering?
    Calculus, data structures and algorithms, differential equations, physics, chemistry, programming, computer organization and architecture, digital hardware design, microprocessor design, file processing, operating systems design, software engineering, circuits and electronics and a two-semester senior design project.

    What Core Skills Will You Have Upon Graduation?
    You will have the ability to design computers and embedded systems with consideration given to hardware, software, and firmware and the tradeoffs among these elements. You will also be able to program computers.

    What Jobs Will You Be Prepared For?
    Computer and embedded system designer, programmer, field service engineer, applications engineer, sales engineer.

    Management Information Systems
    Management Information Systems addresses the application of computers and other information technologies for the management of business information.

    What You Will Study in Management Information Systems?
    Economics, finite mathematics, financial and managerial accounting, legal environment of business, business statistics, marketing, operations management, quantitative business analysis, global business, business systems and policy, business programming, systems analysis and design, telecommunications, database management systems, business strategy and information systems. There is also a practicum in management information systems.

    What Core Skills Will You Have Upon Graduation?
    You will have the ability to develop software applications for business information systems used in managerial decision making and implementation of managerial strategies.

    What Jobs Will You Be Prepared For?
    Computer networking administrator, database administrator, systems analyst.

    Software and Information Engineering
    Software and Information Engineering is concerned with the design, development, implementation, maintenance and updating of large scale software systems.

    What You Will Study in Software Engineering?
    Calculus, discrete mathematics, linear algebra, physics, chemistry, programming, electronic materials, circuits, data structures and algorithms, digital hardware design, computer networks, operating systems, computer organization and architecture, database management systems, object-oriented analysis and design, computer and human interaction, and a two-semester senior design project.

    What Core Skills Will You Have Upon Graduation?
    You will have the ability to design, develop and maintain software systems through: the use of Computer-Aided Software Engineering (CASE) tools; prototyping; making tradeoffs among hardware, software and languages; configuration management, planning and control of software development; testing disciplines; and software maintenance and termination techniques.

    What Jobs Will You Be Prepared For?
    Software applications engineer, project development manager, software developer, software test engineer, software maintenance engineer.
     
  13. Not vehemence. But I don't believe that the TUI program is "a true CS degree." Perhaps it would be better called "Applied Computer Science." For my purposes, it's too weak in fundamentals -- areas such as discrete structures, theoretical computer science (computability, automata, etc.), analysis and design of algorithms, computer architecture & design, operating systems, programming language principles (semantics, design), intelligent systems, requirements engineering, formal specification, software validation, ...
     
  14. StevenKing

    StevenKing Active Member

    BSCS questions

    Thank you for the clarification - may I follow up with a question? Do most employers in the CS realm require transcripts to validate subject matter covered? Just curious...

    Steven King
     
  15. Gary Rients

    Gary Rients New Member

    Then why would you suggest Limestone or Troy State, when their programs don't appear to cover these subjects with any more depth than Touro's program? None of these would be considered strong CS programs, but all them still give you an RA BS in CS, which should be sufficient for most purposes.

    My advice to Lee is to find several graduate programs that you are interested in and find out what you would need in order to be admitted, including the expected prequisite/background courses. You can generally get this information from the program web site, but it can't hurt to discuss it with someone in admissions and/or a program advisor. Then I would get the quickest and cheapest undergrad degree that will prepare you for that graduate program, even if the courses you'll need for your grad program will be electives in your undergrad program. You may find that you could complete an MS in CS in the same or not much more time than it would have taken you to complete the particular BS program that you would have otherwise chosen. For instance, I'd take any RA BA or BS in CS, CIS, IT, etc., along with an RA MS in CS, over just about any BS in CS, no matter how rigorous that BS in CS (with the possible exception of a few very prestigious residential programs). In general, an MS trumps a BS, so I suggest taking the quickest path to an MS rather than focusing on the undergrad degree.

    You may also want to look at this thread and this thread.
     
  16. If you want to learn CS, then (of the schools listed above) NJIT clearly has the strongest curriculum, followed (in my opinion) by Limestone, Troy State, and TUI in that order. I agree that Troy State may not be much stronger than TUI.

    Personally, I am not interested in another credential (and may not bother to pursue any CS program to the point of a degree). So I won't comment about whether it's sensible to get a quick BS to allow one to move on to an MS, etc, etc.
     

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