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  1. #1
    icircuit is offline Registered User
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    Please help me choose, need help ASAP. Bachelors in CIT or Bachelors in CS

    I am currently attending my community college, I will receive my Associate of Science degree in Computer Science by the end of summer. My community college(South Texas College) is 1 of 3 community colleges in the state of Texas accredited to offer bachelor degrees. The bachelor degree I may be interested in is called a BAT-CIT(Bachelors of Applied Technology in Computer Information Technology ). I started the AS degree in CS here at STC with the intentions of transferring to a university to pursue a bachelors in CS. Due to my financial status and paying out of pocket I am considering pursuing the BAT-CIT program here at STC, being an older back to school student, 30 to be exact is also playing a part in making my decision. I would like to graduate with a bachelors asap, if I stay at STC I could finish by next summer or next December due to having some prior credits. If I transfer out to a university I wouldn't graduate until possibly half a year after.

    I would really like to make my decision based on how much more value a university degree would have over a non heard of community college bachelors of apply tech degree.

    I actually like the BAT-CIT program and the courses offered, it almost seems as if it would be a BS degree at a university. Its coupled with other programming courses and concentrated in networking . In my personal opinion I believe it can be good to group programming and networking , I like both.

    If I decide to transfer out I am looking at Texas A&M Corpus Christi, they offer a program I am really interested in. TAMUCC offers a Bachelors of Computer Science concentrated in Cyber Security. This course also combines my interests CS/CyberSecurity. Looking at the degrees plans from my community college and Corpus they seem similar of course except for some courses.

    What comes into play in my eyes, again is how much does the university degree outweigh the CC degree. If I went to Corpus I would be spending between 15k to 20k more according to calculations I have made based on everything and take another full semester to graduate. I have had a small side business that has helped me fund my education , but money is running short. I am looking for a career change to pursue what I always wanted to do getting out of High School.

    If you where in my situation what would you do.

    This is the Associate of Science in Computer Science degree plan at STC(listed only CS courses). I will have this degree by the end of the summer...

    COSC 1336-Programming Fundamentals 1=C++
    COSC 1337-Programming Fundamentals 2=C++
    COSC 2336-Programming Fundamentals 3=C++
    COSC 2325-Computer Organization and Machine Language
    COSC 2330- Unix/Java programming
    Calculus 1- part of CS curriculum

    This is the Bachelors of Applied Tech in CIT at STC degree plan, My CS courses would be applied to this plan as technical hours...down below...

    COSC 1301-Micro Computer Applications
    COSC 1430-Computer Programming = Visual Basic Programming
    COSC 1315- Programming Fundamentals=Web programming
    CITP 3310-Survey of Programming Languages=C# programming
    CITP 4350-Advanced Computer Programming =C# programming
    CITP 4340-Andrioid/IOS Programming
    CITP 4316-Advanced Web Design
    CITP 3320-Database Management =SQL/Oracle/ect
    CITP 3360-Digital Image Processing and Presentation
    ITNW 1425-Fundamentals of Networking
    ITNW 2421-Networking with TCP/IP
    CITP 3313-Fundamentals of Information Security
    ITSW 2443- Computer System Forensics
    ITSC 1405- PC Operating Systems
    CITP 4330-Advanced Network Security
    CITP 3305- System Analysis and Design
    CITP 4345- Data Communications Convergent Technology
    CITP 3312- Advanced Networking

    This is the Bachelors of Computer Science with concentration in Cyber Security and Infrastructure from Texas A&M University in Corpus Christi....down below...

    COSC 1435 Introduction to Problem Solving with Computers I 4 hrs.
    COSC 1436 Introduction to Problem Solving with Computers II 4 hrs.
    COSC 2334 Computer Architecture 3 hrs.
    COSC 2437 Data Structures 4 hrs.
    COSC 3336 Introduction to Database Systems 3 hrs.
    COSC 3346 Operating Systems 3 hrs.
    COSC 3370 Software Engineering 3 hrs.
    COSC 3400 Skills for Computing Professionals 4 hrs.
    COSC 4354 Senior Capstone Project 3 hrs.
    MATH 2413 Calculus I 4 hrs.
    MATH 2305 Discrete Mathematics I 3 hrs.
    MATH 3342 Applied Probability Statistics 3 hrs.
    COSC 2365 System Administration I 3 hrs.
    COSC 2366 Network Administration I 3 hrs.
    COSC 3351 Internet Programming 3 hrs.
    COSC 3365 Cyber Defense I 3 hrs.
    COSC 4342 Computer Networks 3 hrs.
    COSC 4365 System Administration II 3 hrs.
    COSC 3366 Network Administration II 3 hrs.
    COSC 4368 Cyber Defense II 3 hrs.
    Upper-division Computer Science Elective 15 hrs.(would need to choose CS courses)

    If I transfer to TAMUCC they wont give me credit for STC COSC2330.

    What do you think of these degree plans, Do you think the STC bachelors is more of a CS related degree or do you think it is right on track with CIT?

    What plan do you think I would benefit more from employment wise, does the name of the degree and school say a lot?

    Would I also benefit in having an AS in CS with a STC BAT-CIT degree when it comes to employment, I might also be able to get and additional degree if I stay at STC, an AS in CIS .

    If you were in my situation what would you do...

    I gave the most info I could about my situation.

    Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
    TEKMAN is offline Semper Fi!
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    To be fair, your plan is asking other members from distance learning forum for on campus program. If you have financial problem, you might want to take a look at Western Governors University - Texas. It is quit and you can earn IT certifications on the way, there are variety programs you can choose from the IT perspective. Landing a job in IT is not easy, but you have to work at the help desk level. A college degree is a requirement check mark, and whether you can land a job or not by experiences.
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  3. #3
    dlbb is offline Registered User
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    If you want to go into Cyber Security, go the CS route. If you want to go do programming , go the CS route. It all depends on what you want to do when you are done -- more IT or CS. The Cyber Security one offers little on cyber security, but it has a start, and you have to start someone. If you are just looking for a general purpose IT job, the CC one will be fine.

    If you are considering graduate school later, I would also consider the CS program, especially if you are interested in cyber security. At a very advanced level, you may need knowledge from some of the courses, which could be useful in advanced malware analysis or reverse engineering , for instance. If you are not considering graduate school, then I think either would be fine.

    I would avoid WGU Texas. That poster has a propensity for recommending WGU frequently when not appropriate or relevant. For most students on campus will give you a better experience, especially in comparison to a school such as WGU . I am certainly not opposed to online education , as I am clearly on this board, but I think it is best to supplement on campus or later for more advanced studies. I think in general you often get a more rich experience in person and often more hand's on experience, although some online programs can certainly measures up. Many others do not. Texas A&M Corpus Christi would be a lot more impressive than the CC or particularly WGU .

    There is no right or wrong answer. It depends on your goals, what you want to do, how important that $15-20K is, etc. (You might qualify for scholarships if your grades are good and you apply on time and be sure to apply for scholarships, doing whatever essays, etc., are required.) I would go to the university personally. There will be higher caliber students around there than at a CC, and you might benefit from that, but you also have to consider what makes the most sense to you. A university CS program will also likely be a little more demanding.
    Last edited by dlbb; 06-04-2014 at 07:28 PM.

  4. #4
    dlbb is offline Registered User
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    An additional degree such as an AS in CIS would mean little to nothing, with your AS in CS and if you pursue a related BS/BA degree.

  5. #5
    addision is offline Registered User
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    CIT or CS

    This really boils down to how much and what type of programming you want to do. To tell you where I am coming from, during the 90's I was writing databases, and I am very familiar with a few languages, just enough to be dangerous :). I knew sql, c, c++, c#, java somewhat well.

    My good friend who is still a programmer was working for Western Digital as a software engineer and just moved over to Amazon as a manager, so I have an indication of what larger companies are looking for too. As a matter of fact we were just having this conversation a few weeks ago.

    If you are looking to get in with a larger company go the CS route for the name of the degree and definitely get a BS degree from a university, if a smaller company, what will matter most are the skills you have, not the name of the degree or where it is from.

    The CIT is looked at as a light degree by many large company managers regardless of what the courses you take are. To be honest you could end up taking more programming courses than a CS degree, but it will still be viewed as an easier degree to obtain by title alone as CS is usually along the engineering route, and most of the hiring managers in big companies are CS or CE (engineering ) people so they are biased.

    But it all depends on what you want to do. If you want into the business side of things (databases, web sites, scripting), you can go with CIT, if you want to be viewed as a serious programmer when another programmer glances at your resume, then go CS. But your skills will be what makes the greatest impression as there are still many coders that do not have degrees.

    The larger companies resume software will weed you out even before you get your foot in the door unless you know someone if you don't have a BS degree. The larger companies want hard skills and they want you to know them well. Amazon gave my buddy a four hour programming interview, some other large companies are 6 hours long.

    So the key thing is get coding skills and practice them, alot. You will be quizzed as to how you would handle a certain situation or solve a problem. And do not try to be an expert in every language, it won't happen. know a few languages very well and those skills will translate to other languages.

    One more thing on your career, if you go to an interview always take some sample of your work with you on a flash drive and know your work inside and out. If you get hung up on some of their interview questions and are at a loss for words and are bombing the interview, you can always pull out the drive and offer it as an example of the work you have done and offer to go over it with them. Interviews are difficult and this is a good fallback to have in your pocket. But don't steal someone's code just to take with you because you will get burned, most of these guys know what they are doing and can see template code a mile away.

    So educate yourself to your target market, but solid skills matter most.

    Before leaving Western Digital, my friend interviewed a guy with a masters degree in CS who said he developed blank and did this and that. Turns out he only worked on developing a small part of a project. He said he knew c# and when he was quizzed on it he couldn't explain a thing, almost like he didn't know how to program at all. As if he took the classes, got A's on some assignments and never really knew programming . So maybe he was nervous, here is where having a sample of his code would have helped. Don't be this guy.

  6. #6
    TEKMAN is offline Semper Fi!
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    Quote Originally Posted by dlbb View Post
    I would avoid WGU Texas. That poster has a propensity for recommending WGU frequently when not appropriate or relevant. For most students on campus will give you a better experience, especially in comparison to a school such as WGU. I am certainly not opposed to online education, as I am clearly on this board, but I think it is best to supplement on campus or later for more advanced studies. .
    It seems that you would bast anyone who recommend WGU or distance learning alternative in this forum. After reviewed your majority posts, you are anti-distance learning. I have experiences on campus, distance learning, and hybrid for Bachelor, Masters, and Doctorate degrees. I recommend the OP based on the return on investment, and not paying load of student tuition and end up with unemployment. Fine, if the OP is looking for traditional route it is all good. But there is no need to start war with me by posting negatives about my contribution. I am a member of this forum for over 10 years, and I do give respect to other members even though we have disagreement on any subjects.
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  7. #7
    dlbb is offline Registered User
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    I'm sorry, Tekman, but you did a poor job reviewing my posts, and I am not sure what the purpose of doing so was. Why would you conclude I am anti-distance learning when I am actively pursuing a distance degree?

    Your recommendation is generalized and fits your own personal beliefs about distance learning: that cheapest is best, that certain schools, such as WGU or the so-called Big Three , are more ideal.

    He had a specific request about two specific programs, and I just did not find your response relevant or beneficial. In fact, you steered him in the wrong direction. I have noticed that about you in the past, and I have not had to "review" your history to do so. I simply notice due to the high volume of your posts that this is a tendency you have.

    WGU is an online only school, even if it is regionally accredited. I don't think it is advisable to recommend such places except as a last resort as some employers will look down on that. I also do not think their particular model of pursuing certifications at your own pace is going to be something that every student can handle. For a student who is already involved in an on campus program, it could be a potential recipe for disaster, if he is not up for the challenges of distance learning. No where did he express interest in distance learning.

    A quality education is not about sacrificing for what is easiest or cheapest. Distance learning is wonderful, and it has its place. He would be better off at Texas A&M, if he can handle the cost, and he needs to decide what he wants to do in terms of IT vs. CS. Texas A&M would suit him well if he pursues the latter, while WGU would be inappropriate for a CS program.

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  9. #8
    icircuit is offline Registered User
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    sorry it took me so long to come back here and see your responses. A few days after I started this thread I decided I was going to go the CIT route, I hadn't read your threads until just right now. The reason I decided I was going to go the CIT route was because I could finish in 1yr vs 2yrs if I went the CS route, If I finished the CIT in 1yr I could then start with my masters either in CIT or CS at the local University of Texas (computer university) which would accept the BATCIT bachelors.

    But now I am back here again, I know that programming /cybersecurity and going the CS route is what I really want, the only thing is that I am afraid of failure of not being able to program, the reason why is that I am not sure whether I have been taught well enough here at the community college. I have passed programming fundaments 1, programming fundamentals 2, and machine language with a letter grade of an 'A', and currently taking programming fundaments 3 online here at the community college. But I am not so confident in what I have learned based on how my instructer teaches or grades.

    Where I struggle...

    I have had the same instructor for all my courses, so I cant compare him to see if hes actually a good instructor, and if this is how programming should be taught. All his homework and tests are programs. When I took programming fundamentals 1, I would do good on the homework, but when test day came I would struggle a lot, its almost as if my mind would go blank especially knowing I only had 2hrs for the test. When I would finish the tests I would tell myself I would give my self a failing grade, a C, or hopefully a B, because I didn't fully accomplish of what was asked of the program. I ended up getting an 'A' in the course. When I did my sememster project I got the highest grade in my class, I did a heads up poker game in C++, even though it had its flaws he gave me a 90. Even though I got an 'A' for this course, I felt like I didn't deserve it because I really struggled on those tests.

    Now for programming fundamentals 2 I was advised to take his online course but at the same time attend his lectures voluntary. I never missed one of his lectures even though it was voluntary, all his homeworks and tests would be turned in online at midnight of the day he would post them. Having time I was able to do all the homeworks and tests exactly how he wanted them and got an 'A' for the course.Some of the tests would take me several hours to accomplish, this is another reason why I am not so confident in my programming ability. If I actually took this course face to face where I would need to turn in the test in 2hrs there is no way I would pass the course or so I think. When I would go to his lectures I would see other students that grasp the concept right away and can program easily, I started wondering whether when it comes to programming you either have it, or you don't. When I did my semester exam for this course I got the highest grade in the class again. I did an inventory program in c++ with 3000 lines of code, we actually had a month to do this program but I started it a week and half before it was do, I worked on it for several hours every day, got a 95 for it.

    I guess compared to other students I consider myself a slower learner on grasping the concept of the programming were doing, but as long I am given the time I can do it. I just do not know if this is enough to get me through the CS university degree plan.

    look at my second post to know what programming fundamentals 1,2,3 consists of at my community college.

    All your comments and responses are appreciated.

  10. #9
    dlbb is offline Registered User
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    Well, there CS program is not too huge on programming , from the looks of it. Data Structures will be an important course, but I'm sure you will be fine if you work hard. It looks like the CIS program has more coverage of programming languages. I am not sure that I am necessarily the best person to give advice. If you truly want to get in to security, you will need previous experience, maybe some pass the CISSP, or do graduate studies. So it would seem that the cyber security coverage is more of a sneak peak at what is to come. You could do that, or alternatively you could do a straight CS program and do cyber security later on. The CS with cyber security seems a little light on a lot of the traditional CS courses that deal more heavily with programming .

    I personally would opt for a CS over a CIS , but it all boils down to what you want to do with it later. Is your goal to seek employment right away or pursue graduate studies? Make sure you pick a degree program that works best for your goals, whatever direction you want to go. I would also look at curriculum for other CS degrees and see how they compare to that, so you see what courses are missing. Decide which you think you would rather have, or if your present choices are enough to satisfy you.

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