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  1. #1
    jam937 is offline Registered User
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    Carnegie classification of online IT doctorates

    I thought this was interesting how Carnegie classifies the various institutions offering online IT related doctorates. No surprise Nova is on top, but I was a little surprised Dakota State was lower then most and is not even classified as a research institution. I guess it makes sense. They only offer a single doctorate degree in IT where the other schools offer doctorates in several other fields.

    I wonder if this plays a role in hiring faculty??


    RU/H: Research Universities (high research)
    --------------------------------------------
    Nova Southeastern University


    DRU: Doctoral/Research Universities
    ---------------------------------------------
    Walden University
    Colorado Technical University
    Capella University
    Northcentral University


    Master's S: Master's Colleges and Univ. (small)
    ------------------------------------------------
    Dakota State University


    Spec/Engg: Special Focus Institutions (engineering )
    --------------------------------------------------
    Capitol College

  2. #2
    SteveFoerster is offline Resident Gadfly
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    I'm just glad they're including schools like Capella and Walden, and not complying with the anti-profit narrative that dominates the culture of higher education .
    BS, Info Sys concentration, Charter Oak State College
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  3. #3
    TEKMAN is offline Semper Fi!
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    Honestly, I think Colorado Technical University should be categorized under Spec/Engg: Special Focus Institutions (engineering ) with Capital College. Their mission is aiming for students to remain as Practitioners not Scholars.
    Ph.D| Nova Southeastern University (W/D)
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  4. #4
    jfitzg is offline Registered User
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    I find this interesting. Im in the Capitol College program and they are pushing us to publish more. Also I wouldnt necessarily "rank" them based off this list. Also, can you provide the source for this? I Goolged it and couldnt find anything

  5. #5
    SteveFoerster is offline Resident Gadfly
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    I too would think of this as a categorization rather than as a ranking.
    BS, Info Sys concentration, Charter Oak State College
    MA in Educational Tech, George Washington University
    PhD in Leadership, U. of the Cumberlands (in progress)
    More at http://stevefoerster.com

  6. #6
    CalDog is offline Registered User
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    I too would think of this as a categorization rather than as a ranking.
    It is definitely a classification, rather than a ranking. However, the schools classified in one category may be better suited for a particular purpose than the schools classified in another -- just as a vehicle classified in the "Heavy Pickup Category" is probably better suited to hauling gravel than a vehicle classified in the "Economy Subcompact Category".

    I wonder if this plays a role in hiring faculty??
    If you mean full-time tenure-track faculty (high pay, great benefits, guaranteed lifetime employment), then yes -- your odds of success are greatly enhanced if your doctorate is from a school in the "RU/VH" category (research universities with "very high" research activity). This is a different category from Nova Southeastern (which has "high" research activity). The RU/VH schools (which are generally top private schools and flagship public schools) are typically considered the top places for scholarship.

    If you mean part-time adjunct faculty (low pay, no benefits, short-term appointments), then this distinction is much less important, because these positions are much less competitive.

    Honestly, I think Colorado Technical University should be categorized under Spec/Engg: Special Focus Institutions (engineering) with Capital College.
    Carnegie puts a school in one of the "Research University" categories if it granted more than 20 research doctorates in 2010 (which is when the last update was conducted). Colorado Technical was slightly above this level. Capitol College and Dakota State were below it.

    Capitol College and Dakota State are in different categories, because Dakota State grants a wide variety of degrees, while Capitol is clearly focused on engineering and IT.

    I'm just glad they're including schools like Capella and Walden, and not complying with the anti-profit narrative that dominates the culture of higher education.
    One common criticism of for-profit universities is that their profits aren't used to support meaningful research. The Carnegie Classification implicitly supports this criticism, because all for-profit doctoral universities are in the "DRU" category, which represents the lowest level of research activity. There are over 200 doctoral universities in the "high" or "very high" research activity categories, but exactly zero of them are for-profit. This categorization is probably fair, rather than politically motivated.

  7. #7
    CalDog is offline Registered User
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    Also, can you provide the source for this?
    The basic Carnegie Classification categories are listed here.

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  9. #8
    jam937 is offline Registered User
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    Here is the Carnegie institution lookup
    Carnegie Classifications | Institution Lookup

  10. #9
    jam937 is offline Registered User
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    Keeping specifically to teaching IT/Computer Science at RA schools....


    Would it be fair to say that if your doctorate degree is not from a university classified as high or very high doctoral research then:
    - Your odds of getting a tenure track position are slim to none?
    - It doesn't matter which school granted your degree for non-tenure positions as long as it's RA?
    - Industry experience is more important then your doctorate (as long as you have a doctorate)?


    I've seen people with full time (probably non-tenure) IT/computer teaching positions at numerous public (and private) universities with degrees from Capella , Walden, Colorado Technical, Northcentral and Dakota State. They have PhD's, DBA's, DSc's, and DCS's. IT seems the school and degree don't matter very much for non-tenure teaching .

    There are many people teaching computer science with PhD/DBA degrees in Business Administration with IT specialties from Northcentral. I was under the misguided impression that you needed an IT degree to teach IT but apparently not. Interestingly most of these people on LinkedIn list their degree as a PhD in Computer Science and they leave out the Business Admin. part.

  11. #10
    sanantone is offline Registered User
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    I know you're asking specifically about IT and computer science , but this is what I've learned in my doctoral program that might be true for many other fields. I have yet to hear that Carnegie classification matters. What I did hear is that the rank of the program matters a lot. My professor straight up told us that people aren't hired for programs that are ranked higher than the program they came from. The exception to this would be the #1 school; they will recruit from the #2 and #3 schools. He could be wrong; there could be a little more flexibility to this, but I think, in most cases, someone who graduated from a #20 program will not be teaching at a #5 program.

    My school is listed as a master's level university since we have very few doctoral programs. A student who just graduated from my program got a job teaching at University of Houston which is rated as having very high research activity. She was able to do this because neither UH nor Texas State have ranked criminal justice programs.

    Many of the lower-ranked and unranked programs will only require 18 graduate credits in the area that's going to be taught. If it's an area of study that has few doctorates, then colleges will accept closely related degrees with or without the 18 graduate hours. This is why there are so many people with sociology degrees teaching criminal justice . Most of these people do not have 18 graduate credits in CJ.
    Last edited by sanantone; 12-10-2013 at 02:01 PM.
    Texas State University - PhD CJ (ABD)
    Angelo State University - Master of Security Studies and Grad Cert Terrorism
    Thomas Edison State College/University - BA Soc Sci, AAS in Environmental Safety, ASNSM in Biology, & BSBA in CIS

  12. #11
    jam937 is offline Registered User
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    I think your ranking scenario makes sense. I think all the schools I mentioned in my first post are probably ranked very low in every field. This is just an educated guess.

    So again.... from the schools listed does it really matter which one grants your degree if you plan on non-tenure track teaching ?

  13. #12
    jam937 is offline Registered User
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    My reasoning for this thread ....

    I have just completed my master's in computer science and am awaiting conferral. I plan to pursue a doctorate that will allow me to teach primarily online, but possibly in person. I also want a doctorate for personal reasons. I don't know if it will help my 20 year IT career much.


    I just applied to Dakota State (DSU)
    - They are the cheapest provided they take my MSCS as an MSIS
    - Cost and time could go up a lot if I have to take several MSIS courses
    - They only start in the fall (10 months from now - bummer!)
    - I fear losing some of my academic momentum


    I hadn't given much thought to Northcentral (NCU) as it's a business degree, but
    - I have seen numerous people teaching IT/IS/CS with these doctorates
    - Adding versatility, one could teach business as well
    - I would finish 9-10 months sooner then DSU
    - I would finish much faster if DSU wants me to take MSIS catch-up courses
    - It is the next cheapest option for an "IT related" doctorate
    - Cost might be even if DSU wants me to take MSIS catch-up courses
    - I like being independent and able to move faster through courses
    - The IT specialization courses appear easy to me (not sure that's good or bad)
    - A business degree would be better help for my 20 year IT career in case teaching doesn't work out or I stick to IT.

  14. #13
    CalDog is offline Registered User
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    I have yet to hear that Carnegie classification matters. What I did hear is that the rank of the program matters a lot.
    You will never anyone in academia say: "We want to hire a tenure-track professor with a doctoral degree from a Carnegie Category RU/VH institution."
    The Carnegie classification is not something that is important for most academics, except maybe administrators or researchers who have to categorize different schools.

    Instead, you will hear people in academia say: "We want to hire a tenure-track professor with a doctoral degree from a highly-ranked, well-known, prestigious university."

    But it just so happens that practically all of the highest-ranked, best-known, and most prestigious universities are in Carnegie Category RU/VH.
    So in practice, academic employers favor schools in that category, even if they've never heard of the Carnegie Classification.
    Last edited by CalDog; 12-10-2013 at 02:23 PM.

  15. #14
    sanantone is offline Registered User
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    I think the rank and prestige of the program is more important than the rank and prestige of the university. An engineering degree from Harvard is not all that impressive since their engineering programs rank in the 20s and 30s.
    Texas State University - PhD CJ (ABD)
    Angelo State University - Master of Security Studies and Grad Cert Terrorism
    Thomas Edison State College/University - BA Soc Sci, AAS in Environmental Safety, ASNSM in Biology, & BSBA in CIS

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  17. #15
    sanantone is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by jam937 View Post
    I think your ranking scenario makes sense. I think all the schools I mentioned in my first post are probably ranked very low in every field. This is just an educated guess.

    So again.... from the schools listed does it really matter which one grants your degree if you plan on non-tenure track teaching?
    Full-time or adjunct teaching ? A degree from a traditional college would probably look better for full-time jobs. Work experience is also important in some of these positions.

    Quote Originally Posted by jam937 View Post
    My reasoning for this thread ....

    I have just completed my master's in computer science and am awaiting conferral. I plan to pursue a doctorate that will allow me to teach primarily online, but possibly in person. I also want a doctorate for personal reasons. I don't know if it will help my 20 year IT career much.


    I just applied to Dakota State (DSU)
    - They are the cheapest provided they take my MSCS as an MSIS
    - Cost and time could go up a lot if I have to take several MSIS courses
    - They only start in the fall (10 months from now - bummer!)
    - I fear losing some of my academic momentum


    I hadn't given much thought to Northcentral (NCU) as it's a business degree, but
    - I have seen numerous people teaching IT/IS/CS with these doctorates
    - Adding versatility, one could teach business as well
    - I would finish 9-10 months sooner then DSU
    - I would finish much faster if DSU wants me to take MSIS catch-up courses
    - It is the next cheapest option for an "IT related" doctorate
    - Cost might be even if DSU wants me to take MSIS catch-up courses
    - I like being independent and able to move faster through courses
    - The IT specialization courses appear easy to me (not sure that's good or bad)
    - A business degree would be better help for my 20 year IT career in case teaching doesn't work out or I stick to IT.
    NCU is cheaper than Capitol College by tuition rate, or are they giving you a lot of transfer credits?
    Texas State University - PhD CJ (ABD)
    Angelo State University - Master of Security Studies and Grad Cert Terrorism
    Thomas Edison State College/University - BA Soc Sci, AAS in Environmental Safety, ASNSM in Biology, & BSBA in CIS

  18. #16
    CalDog is offline Registered User
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    I think the rank and prestige of the program is more important than the rank and prestige of the university. An engineering degree from Harvard is not all that impressive since their engineering programs rank in the 20s and 30s.
    Yes, that can be important: a university can have specific programs that are particularly highly ranked (or unusually low ranked). But in practice, most programs at most universities tend to be clustered near the institutional average.

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