need help ASAP

My good friend has just decided to send her son to Emmaus Bible College for college, he will major in "computers" whatever that means. It's about $15k per year and he's borrowing it all- so ~ $60,000 in debt when finished. They are RA, but I don't know what to make of this "computer" degree!?!?!? Tell me he will be able to earn a living please?! She (yes, the mom) picked this for him over University of Illinois' computer engineering degree. I need to know if I should keep my mouth shut (as in, it's a fine looking degree) or shout from the rooftops (as in, he'll be pumping gas for a living).

Feedback asap please!

http://www.emmaus.edu/page.aspx?id=38583

 

Hey Cook, Glad to see you on this forum.
To answer your question. I dont work in the field but im sure someone could chime in if im wrong. But, when I did work in the field it was about your certs you hold and work experience. He could save a boat load by going else where but he should then go for his certifications in networking if he is going that route. And if programming then he would have to just build on the languages he wants to program in .. I know many guys who are ccna's and unix admins that make 80k and didnt step in one college. They did their stuff in a vocational school and went for their certs.
Hope this helps

 

The field can be wide open and it is like saying "how much will I make with a business degree?" I may be wrong but I do not see a "bible college" as the ideal place for a computer degree and at $60K, I don't know. If someone was young like just out of high school and going for a computer degree, I would recommend a school accredited by ABET
(Accreditation Board for Engineering and Technology). Here is the site and University of Illinois is on it.

A computer science degree can earn anywhere from 35K to 100K depending on the specialty and school. Hope this helps.

 

Time for a reality check here:

She turned down UIUC's computer engineering program to send her son to Bible College, where he can get a "BACHELOR OF SCIENCE IN BIBLE AND THEOLOGY AND
COMPUTER INFORMATION SYSTEMS"? Seriously?

Yeah, she probably made a GIGANTIC mistake. Just so you understand, UIUC is one of the top Computer Science/Engineering schools in the country.

Will he be able to get a job with the bible college degree? Probably. Will it be as lucrative as the degree from UIUC? Most likely, NO!

The Bible college degree with teach him how to work with databases and administer systems. The UIUC degree will teach him how to DESIGN those systems. It would be the equivalent of being an expert automobile mechanic, verses an engineer for GM who designs cars.

As a new graduate WHERE you went to school means almost everything. That UIUC degree would give the kid access to positions that there is no way he would be qualified for with the Bible College degree. Also, the alumni network of UIUC, particularly their engineering department is especially strong.

Certifications generally deal with lower level IT issues such as system and network administrators. For the kinds of jobs available to a Computer Engineer (actually, isn't UIUCs Computer Engineering program a double major Computer Engineering/Electrical Engineering) there really are not any certifications available, other the the Professional Engineer License.

Now, if he really wants to be a system or database administrator, then the bible college program would be a better fit.

 

I noticed the same thing and though he would be better quailifed to say, "You better pray this computer works..." Sorry - I could not resist

 

>>


LOL, omg. Ok. <sigh>

 

I'd say go with UIUC because of the reasons that mcjon77 listed, ex better name, ABET accreditation, more technical in nature, some employers may be leery or have prejudices when they see "bible college" on the resume, etc.

I was about to say if Bible study and so on were very important to him (not to the mother) then he should consider Emmaus more seriously, but if that is the case I think he should wait and do a MDiv, MTS, MA in Religion, etc later. Most of these degrees do not require previous study of Bible/theology for entry and many of them can be done part-time & online. Unless he wants to be a pastor or something, in which case why bother with the "... + computers too" degree at all?

 

No, he has no hard goals. The bible study is 100% mom selected- that's why she picked the school, she thinks it's important. *and not to minimize their faith, but I think that the majority of the world navigates these waters without jeopardizing their religious convictions too much. He just wants to do "something with computers." They signed up for fall, so it's essentially a done deal.

 

I would say that your friend her HER own interests at heart and NOT those of her son. If he got into University of Ill. then he should go there - especially if he is going spend that kind of money.

If she wants her son to succeed in life and not despise her after he graduates and can't find a job, she should revisit her belief system and do what's right for him, not her.

It's not too late, but he should start making phone calls to UoI right away to go there - he might as well stand up to his mother now and spend his own money.

 

What is the opinion of the student going to college? He or she is of age of majority and has a voice. Until that opinion is known, the opinions of those on the forum aren't connected to him/her.

1. UofI is a good school for computer engineering.

2. Computer engineering is not Computer Information Systems. Does the student have a math aptitude? Is he more of a liberal arts/manager personality?

3. Linux admins and Cisco guys make money if they are willing to travel/relocate/consult or are fortunate enough to live in an area that has a large amount of that kind of work. Chicago is not a big hub on the order of Texas/Florida/Portland OR, as far as the amount of work is concerned. Yes a lot of guys make money, but does your student want to spend the money to get certified and potentially move? I could make 200k right now if I moved to Dubai.. I'm not really interested. I'll be happy with what I make in the Northeast.

4. We're talking 4 years out and the economy will improve. Nothing says "I could have ethics" quite like a religious education. Of course there are other possible interpretations but as a hiring manager, I like people with faith. If they also show diligence I love them.

5. Experience rules the roost. Lets not overcomplicate the discussion in regards to school worth. If the kid goes to UoI and his capstone or portfolio isn't as hot as the other kids, he still won't get work out of college. So caveat emptor.

Either way, a healthy relationship with his or her family needs to come first. No sense in doing anything if that's not possible.

Of course, I think different.

 

Well,

Maybe a person changes after 4 to 5 years in an university.
On one side Bible study with info systems on another side heavy duty engineering education sorority and partying.
I think mother knows what may happen to her child and his/her character.
I remember my university days and nights .

Biblical education is great asset to obtain.

I have a friend who graduated from Lev institute in Jerusalem with rabbinical and engineering degree.
The Lev Institute has good name recognition among employes in Israel.

I wander if he was one of the designers of Sabbath elevator for orthodox Jews.

I worked on multi million $$$$ projects for churches, for example putting a state of the art contact centers.
They employed christian IT workers who also active in the church in diffrent roles.

 

To everyone- thanks a bunch. My influence is with his mom, not him. There is no way he would buck her suggestion, he's just not that type of kid. It's all a go, he leaves next week. The school isn't too far from us, so I'll see him a few times this semester on weekends I'm sure. I'll be interested to see how he likes it. Again, thanks!!

 

All right, I hope I don't step on too many toes, but I know Emmaus, I know some of their religious requirements and they will not help you network computers. There is a lot of time spent on things that will not help him in the field. The student would be better off at a great discount at a no-name college than a college that will make employers wonder how much time was spent on computers vs. in a chapel.

Chapel time is good, it shouldn't be at your school unless it is somehow relevant to your field of study. I'm sorry, this student will take more harm than good from this very recognizable college when he tries to get a job. Showing up at chapel shouldn't affect your grade, and at Emmaus it does. Long story short, it will hurt this student unless he has a specific implementation for this ultimately religious degree. It would be one thing if the cost was reasonable, but at that cost I better be seeing one hell of a ROI.

That said, if the student truly, honestly, believes it is going to fit his plan somehow, I would defer to that, but if it's just the mom, forget it.

 

Emmaus (contrarian viewpoint)

I visited Emmaus when it was still located in a suburb of Chicago and I think it is a great school. If the only reason for going to school is for vocational training, then the state school would be better, but for character building and building a foundation for life I believe Emmaus would be great.
My recommendation would be to consider a one or two year certificate program at Emmaus and then see what classes you can transfer to the state school. Now that Emmaus is RA, I think this would be an option to consider. That being said, if the eventual goal is to enter a Computer Engineering program, most of the technical courses may only be accepted from a Computer Science or Engineering program, so it may take longer than 4 years to complete the degree.

 

Early in a career the reputation of the college makes a gigantic difference. The jobs available to students graduating from top 10 colleges are completely different from the jobs available from RA colleges are completely different from the jobs available unaccredited colleges. UofI is always listed as regional top 10, almost always as national top 10. That's already mentioned by mcjon77.

I've worked with folks from top 10 colleges and from bible colleges including Emmaus. Folks from any top 10 college got early boosts in their career for it. To nearly any employer a degree from any RA college is interchangeable with a degree from any other RA college. Having an RA degree opens doors but not the best doors. The folks I've worked with who have degrees from bible colleges struggled in their early careers the same as anyone from any random RA college. In Illinois that would be Northern Illinois U.

The background in liberal arts from a non-technical college is mentioned by Lerner. Bible college is just a class of liberal arts colleges in that sense. There's a real advantage to liberal arts education but it's the type of advantage that matters decades into a career not at the start.

So which is better in the short run? The top 10 place all the way. Which is better in the long run? There will be time for bible college to be paid for by the higher income form the better job.

 

@Steve:
It seems likely to me that funding is dependent on going along with the mother's expectations. This has proven to be the case time and time again with the vast majority of my younger acquaintances and my own personal experience as well.

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I personally hate it when Christian parents force (or too strongly encourage) students to continue their education in a Christian environment (even in high school). I've seen statistics that say anywhere between 40-75% of college students lose their faith in college. They attribute this to the "liberal" or "evil" teachings of the school. I attribute it to the fact that nobody has bothered to arm the college student with answers to solid secular objections (of which there are many, and dismissing them is a mistake!) while young enough to actually ask the parents for guidance.

Allowing this forced ignorance to continue through college is an enormously risky proposition in my mind.

When I attended a local Christian school (CSCS) I was horrified that the "secular education" concerning evolution was a satirical comic book written at the 5th grade level and many years dated. No wonder when students get to college and find out they've been lied to (or at least kept in the dark) they turn away. How can one argue against or even integrate into their faith theories they've never heard of from a side sympathetic to religion? Of course the point is moot of the parents are willfully ignorant of modern science and thought. Come to think of it, that's probably the majority. It's human nature to stop seeking once one is satisfied with an answer.

Oh well. I give up. I just hope God will understand my generations point of view if Christianity turns out to be (somewhat) accurate and my generation winds up on the wrong side of things due to forced ignorance. Maybe the "too inexperienced to go to hell" rule that most Christians apply to children will apply with college students who were never exposed to modern study until it was too late.