Has anyone here taken any computer certifications tests and acquired the certification? I am about to take my A+ and Network+ in the next 2 months hopefully. Just wondering if anyone else is on the certification chase also
I have my MCP+Internet, MCSE - NT 4.0, MCSA - W2K, Network+, and A+. I have studied for the CCNA exam. Do you have any questions?
firstmode4c, I am certified in MCP WinsXP, MCSA 2000, MCSE 2000, CompTIA A+, and CompTIA Network+ about two years ago before I graduated from High School. And now I am in the Marine Corps, but I am thinking about going to use my G.I Bill to update these certifications. Also, I want to take CompTIA CTT+, Linux+, CISCO, Oracle 9I, and Server+ If you need study guide for A+ and Network+, then drop me your email address at: [email protected] or [email protected] Good Luck with your exam....
You may want to use the search feature. This topic has been covered in depth more than a couple times. Bottom line Experience is most valued, followed by Degrees, followed distantly by certs. Certs alone are very unlikely to get you anything other than an entry level one. Do not fall for the New Horizon, etc scam to charge $4-10k for certs that'll get you a $9 an hour job.
I would not do new horizons unless someone else was paying for it ;-) I just self study many of these things. I have found the best way to build hands on experience for more complicated certs is to build study servers and networks and implement many OS's and enterprise applications.
I would start with A+ and N+. Do NOT take a class for these test. Buy a book like Exam Prep or Exam Cram. I used Exam Prep for my A+ and it is a great resource. Certs seperate the hobbiest from the professional.
I'm in the process of doing my A+ and Network + exam also. I'm not really doing them for employment purposes, but just it's always been something I've wanted to do since high school. I've been using the CBT Nugget videos which some people have recommended, and study guides. Normally the exam is $145 if you go directly through VUE or Prometric but I've found exam vouchers for as cheap as $79. These seem to be places that buy them in bulk and have a few that are about to expire. One place I've found was to get them is at http://www.store.yahoo.com/advanced-technology-group-atg/itpractesand.html. If you find one cheaper than that, let me know!! I'm taking the core hardware next week, and maybe the OS a few weeks after that.
======================================== I respectfully disagree. Experience, certification, and then a Degree is the order of importance in my humble opinion. I DO NOT have a degree (working on it now). I have relied on Experience and certs for employment. The degree is really just a piece of paper to "validate" what you already know, and IS sometimes required at companies who really have no concept of the IT industry, for the good-ole boys club who demand a degree in ANYTHING for employment, or for role of IT Managers (I've done that too, without a degree) who must mix business operations with some IT, but most of it is paper pushing and appeasing executives with meetings and presentations (in my experience anyway). My intention is not to repudiate the need for a degree, as I said I'm working on mine, but it is not required for success (you will have to work harder to prove yourself than your diploma-holding counterparts, which is not really fair, but hey, life is not fair, right?) I have come across way too many degree holders who really have no concept of real-world IT. They can explain how it should work, but have no concept of actually making it work or implementing it - not without experience or a cert (a real cert, no paper tigers here). Also, think about how often technolgy changes - do you really believe someone who graduated in 1980, 1990, or even 2000 have the skills neccessary to implement modern technology and software, residing solely on a degree? Certs are important, I am living proof. I have been employed as a trainer, consultant, engineer, analyst, technical writer, auditor, etc. etc. etc. As an IT Manager, I steered clear of those with degress but no certs. Yes, I am sure I have been overlooked for jobs in favor of a less qualified person because they had the cardstock with a school's name on it, but that was their loss. In short - get your degree and your certs (work on them concurrently, see which one grants more hands-on, applicable skills), but do not make the mistake that it will be the end-all solution. After all, its real purpose is to simply satisfy a company policy implemented by someone who had to sit through 4-8 years of school, and believes that everyone should have to do the same. As for experience, that comes with time. Take Dave's advice about the cert mills - invest your money in books and a computer lab for your basement and go self-study. The bootcamp style learning does not really produce results unless you are a seasoned pro just wanting the details needed to sit for the test. Good luck and God bless! -Eric Farmer, CISSP, CISM, CNE, MCSE, CCNA, A+, Net+, CHA, MCT, CNI, CTT
My take on certs (I'll get to the certs in a moment.) I have been working in the computer field for 19 years now. I am totally self taught in my field and do not (yet) have a degree. Although I was making very good money in my previous job, it took a lot of work on my part to prove my worth (in four years there, I increased my pay by $20K). I also worked beside people with degrees who were idiots, but made much more than I did. Having said all that, I decided last year to enroll at Excelsior and obtain a BSLS. My main motivation was the almost universal prejudice against people without degrees. The reason for my doing the Liberal Arts degree is simply that I could complete it by exam (combined with some prior course work and Air Force credit). As to the certifications, I agree that a cert w/o experience doesn't mean much. However, it is better than having neither. Last spring, I completed the A+, Network+ and Server+ in about a month. With my experience, I found the exams easy. I had two reasons for getting these certs - first, combined with my experience, the certs do show employers that I have some level of knowledge; second, Excelsior awarded me six credits towards my degree. I knew that I could get Excelsior credit when I took the exams, which made taking them even more useful. Along with some Arts & Sciences credits that I still need, I also needed two Applied Professional credits. Today, I just passed the Security+ exam, which will satisfy that requirement (I checked with Excelsior before taking the exam.) Get some certs if you want, but get as much hands-on experience as you can, also. And as I have learned, it really does help to get a degree of some kind, just to get your foot in the door at many businesses.
It really is simple.... Experience, degrees, and certifications are just ways for a potential employer to know if you can do the job. Obviously, experience is the most powerful and, often, the most likely to get you the job. Of the two remaining, a degree has a decided advantage over a cert. A degree takes years and shows you have an understanding of theory. A cert takes weeks and, at least at times, can be passed without knowing the subject. At its best it shows you know some practical knowledge and some theory. If you had your choice of an employee with a degree but no experience or certs, or one with a cert but no degree or experience which would you choose? I know I would choose the one with a degree all other things being equal.
The last post must be addressed: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ No experience and a cert -or- No experience and a degree. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Well that obviously depends on the cert and/or the degree and the position being applied for. For example: Hiring for a network admin position: Candidate #1 has MCSE, CNE, or whatever and no experience. Candidate #2 has a degree in Computer Science and no experience. Candidate 1 has proven (providing he didn't use troytec or the like - a whole other topic) that he at least has the foundation to understand, implement, and manage the technology in use for the job role. Candidate 2 has the theory down, but honestly, what good does theory do me in my practical everyday tasks and getting things done in a REAL production environment? Hiring for a Teaching position (for the same discipline of study) or a team member for a Research project on Artificial intelligence or study in abstract design practices: Obviously, Candidate 2 is the choice, but again we are taling about apples and oranges here. I think that is where a lot of employers go wrong, they lump all IT into such a broad category, not understanding all the aspects of job function and needs, then blindly state you must have a degree to accomplish it. I worked for a rather large health care organization for several months (I left because I hated the atmosphere - their upperlevel IT people had degrees in Project Management, Accounting, Business and the like. They could talk a good talk, but could not actually DO anything related to IT implementation. That is fine if your job is strictly managerial, but again, it ALL DEPENDS ON THE POSITION. I would suggest to all employers to closley examine their positions and make an informed decision before simply tossing all those out who do not meet their sometimes silly Degree criteria. By the way, Mojoehand, with your determination and obvious abilities to learn without someone holding your hand for 4 years (the self study statement) - I am sure you run circles around most of those who use their degree only to justify their position. Again, it is good that you are getting a degree, I am doing the same, but unfortunately mine is really just to have the piece of paper to satisfy those in HR department who do not know any better. It is sad, but it is a game we all must play.... -Eric
Hi Eric We'll probably have to agree to disagree. In my example I said all else being equal which would you hire a candidate with one degree or a candidate with one cert? The cert can easily be "brained dumped" without actually knowing the material while the degree really can't. Let's ignore that point though. If they both have equal knowledge other than the degree, I would always hire the degree over the cert. The degree shows a level of maturity and commitment the cert never can. Beyond your and mine theoritical choice, the question comes up which does the market value? Other than entry level, job openings almost always show a degree requirement but only sometimes show a cert requirement. It has also been my experience that in or out of the industry people respect degrees. On the converse, even in the industry many people say the cert doesn't really mean much. Outside of it, most have no clue what a CNE or MCP means. Lastly degrees carry value over time. Certs are valued one year, and not the next. A CNE USE to be very valuable. Now it is useful only at very few firms. So if someone wants to know which will help their carreer the most over time, it clearly is the degree. That doesn't mean certs don't have value, especially considering many can be knocked out rather quick. In any case, take care and have a great holiday.
I have a job in IT and did not have a degree but I had my MCP. My manger had her degree and no certs. Her degree was in Computer Science and she learned PASCAL and COBOL. She still have the degree even though the knowledge was outdated. When I spent a couple of thousand dollars paying for my certs, my wife asked if they would be good forever. I told her yes but they would not be of as much value as time went on. I had an instructor that had his MCSE or MCP in Windows 3.51 (as well as every other cert under the sun). If he did not keep up with his certs, he might as well not have any. I have my MCSA W2K and do not remember anything about AD because I never us it. A cert does not ensure knowledge, it just shows you can study and pass a test on a topic. A degree shows you can commit and follow through on the long term and it NEVER expires.
"In my example I said all else being equal which would you hire a candidate with one degree or a candidate with one cert?" ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -Like I said, depends on the degree, depends on the cert. And yes, I have chosen cert holders over degree holders, every case us different. "The cert can easily be "brained dumped" without actually knowing the material while the degree really can't." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -People can and do cheat their way though college. There will be always dishonest people who find a way to beat any system. By the way, many colleges are now mapping their courses to certs (i.e. Network+) for Info Tech degrees. I have sit through traditional college courses where I literally did know more than my instructor, in theory and practice. Computer Science is another story, but my experience tends to suggest that ppl going this route are into programming. "If they both have equal knowledge other than the degree, I would always hire the degree over the cert. The degree shows a level of maturity and commitment the cert never can." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ It is this exact mentality which propogates what is wrong with the industry. I know a person who had over tens years experience in IT, held many certs, had a history of highly technical employment for large companies. He applied for a large brokerage firm for IT and was told without a degree they could only pay him $42,000 (company policy mandated those without degrees could only be considered "junior associates", with a degree (in anything, they didn't care) it would be $75,000. Needless to say, he politely declined. I know this maybe an extreme example, but you would have to agree that this is absolutely ridiculous. As far as maturity, why does sitting through a class or series of classes constitute maturity? Maybe patience, not necessarily maturity. What about the guy who self studied, relying on books, research, and other forms of education. I guess he is still inferior because he did not hand over his money and time to an institution. "Beyond your and mine theoritical choice, the question comes up which does the market value? Other than entry level, job openings almost always show a degree requirement but only sometimes show a cert requirement. " ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I agree with this, it is the main problem in IT. Narrow-minded traditional methods that have not progressed in the past 100 years. This does not make it right, it only makes it popular practice. This is the problem I alluded to when I mentioned "we all had to play the game...." "It has also been my experience that in or out of the industry people respect degrees" ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This is true as well, especially among non technical HR people or managers - but again, a majority of this perception arises from lack of knowledge. "On the converse, even in the industry many people say the cert doesn't really mean much." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Yes, because of the braindumpers. The degree does not mean any either though, except to FULFILL A COMPANY REQUIREMENT FOR EMPLOYMENT. It serves less PRACTICAL value than the cert does. "Outside of it, most have no clue what a CNE or MCP means." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Precisely - that is why these people should not be the ones screening or hiring potential employees for the IT industry. "Lastly degrees carry value over time. Certs are valued one year, and not the next." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This, in my opinion, is exactly why a degree does not contstitute skill or knowledge. A Cert must be maintained to be kept. A degree is "good" forever. Someone who graduated 10 years ago has no concept whatsoever of today's technology, if one is basing his abilities solely on the degree. Technology changes so fast that a degree is usually antiquated before one even graduates. "So if someone wants to know which will help their carreer the most over time, it clearly is the degree." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Again, I agree. This is a fact of life. I won't dispute it, I just think it is very sad. That is why I am obtaining the coveted piece of paper and encourage others to do as well. To validate yourself to OTHERS. I still stand by my statement, that those in "the know" could really care less about it one way or the other. But those in the know do not always have the authority to do the hiring or set policy. Happy Thanksgiving!
