Excelsior College BSCIS

Discussion in 'IT and Computer-Related Degrees' started by etech, Nov 28, 2003.

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  1. etech

    etech New Member

    Hi,

    Sorry for posting this if it has already been discussed earlier.

    A question to those of you out there with Excelsior BSCIS degree. I want to know your experience with Excelsior BSCIS degree outside of US (preferably in Canada if possible). How did you find the utility of Excelsior BSCIS degree in terms of getting employment and further admission to Masters in CS or IS at Colleges outside US ?

    Did you got held back for getting a DL degree from Excelsior outside US ? (I also noticed most of jobs and even admission requriements for Master program asks for Bachelor degree in Computer Science and Excelsior's degree is in CIS). I want to join a B&M University in Canada and do MS in CS or Information Systems/Science.
     
  2. drwetsch

    drwetsch New Member

    I do not have an Excelsior BSCIS but I am an Excelsior grad and work in the IT field. Many Excelsior grads go on to the graduate school of their choice. You may want to consider checking with the graduate schools you are interested in applying to to see if the Excelsior CIS degree or a CIS degree in general will meet their degree entry requirements.

    John
     
  3. dmprantz

    dmprantz New Member

    I have an Excelsior BS/CIS, though all of my experience is in the US. CIS, IS, and IT degrees almost always fall under ABET's classification of an IS degree. Excelsior's program is not accredit by them, but very few schools (under 5 I think?) are.

    I do not think that having any degree has helped me in my job search, but it does allow me to apply for jobs that require a degree. In my experience, most jobs require "A bachelors degree in Computer Science or Equivalent," so CIS is fine, just as MIS or EE would be.

    As for Excelsior being DL, no one has ever batted an eye. Some people ask who they are, and I explain that they are a small, private school in Albany that used to be part of USNY, but I never volunteer that they are an assessment school (They're not really DL).

    I have looked at some local B&M MSCS programs, but not even thought about applying. They generally require a BSCS, but always talk about exceptions, and I would bet money that a BS/CIS would would be fine. The key is to make sure you have courses which are generally required by an MSCS program. Notably, those are Calculus II, Linear Algebra, Prob. and Stat, and Algorithms, none of which are required for Excelsior's BS/CIS. If you hope to attain an MSCS, you would be well served to take those courses to apply as Excelsior electives, so you don't have to take other extra credits. If you do take those courses though, you might be well served to investigate getting a true BSCS from COSC or TESC. It might avoid one more level of headache if that is an option for you.

    Daniel
     
  4. etech

    etech New Member

    dmprantz, I have checked COSC and TESC as well. Both dont offer BSCS per say. COSC only has a general studies degree and TESC has either BSBA in Information Systems or BS in Applied Computer Science and Technology. So they dont have pure BSCS. I think even if I pursue TESC degree it will still leave gap. My second option is to go for MS in IS instead of MS in CS. what do you think ?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2004
  5. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member

    I think you're right except that TESC has a
    BACS.
     
  6. dmprantz

    dmprantz New Member

    It's been a while since I looked into this, but from what I recall, both COSC and TESC offer a CS degree, with caveats. From what I recall, TESC's program is the one which requires Linear and Calc II, and is a solid program in line with ABET CS. Also, I don't remember if it was TESC or COSC who recently decided that all of the "concentrations" of their degrees are now "majors." It may be a BA as some one else has indicated. As I said, it may only make sense if that degree suites you, but I recommend at least looking into it if you are going to be taking the extra courses for an MSCS. As for MSIS, I really couldn't answer, as I am not familliar with the graduate world.

    Daniel
     
  7. etech

    etech New Member

    .
    right, but its a BA and not a BS. You know, not regarded as the same. Most requirements specially say a BS in CS
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2004
  8. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member

    I'd think that the MS reqs would involve courses taken and that any deficiencies in a BA could be rectified with additional courses. Likely depends on the school.
     
  9. dmprantz

    dmprantz New Member

    Most jobs I have seen only request a "Bachelors Degree," not BS or BA. Grad schools might say things differently. My whole point was that it just pays off to know your options. If you are not happy with the options that COSC and TESC present you (As I wasn't), then you are better off with Excelsior, but at least you know that you are. Hope I have helped.

    Daniel
     
  10. etech

    etech New Member

    Thanks guys. I will definitely check out all options. If TESC and COSC does not work, well its back to Excelsior option. :)
     
  11. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member

    etech,

    One other thing, if you don't mind. If you are not sure of what the undergrad requirements will be for an MS then maybe you can ask of TESC/COSC if the graduates of their programs have gone on to MS degrees in CS and at which schools. If you do then I'd be interested in hearing the results as this is one of the grey areas (to me, at least) in DL study.
     
  12. etech

    etech New Member

    I will check with them, not sure if they will provide me this info. Do we know for Excelsior ? Have Excelsior graduates gone for MSCS ?
     
  13. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member

    Strictly my opinion but I think that any MSCS program that accepts an undergrad degree in IS as fully qualifying is likely an inferior MS degree. I'm sure there are such programs.

    When CS degrees were new, I noticed that there were those offered by technical schools or departments that were the rough equivalent of engineering degrees and those offered by business schools or departments that were no more technical than most business degrees. Being an opinionated fellow, it is my opinion that the latter should now be classified as IS and not CS degrees.

    But then, there are those programs falling in the muddled middle between "hard" and "soft." What fits your aspirations should determine your choices.
     
  14. calidris

    calidris New Member

    MSCS

    When I started working on my BS-CIS from Excelsior I had no intention of going on for an MS-CS. My focus has changed since then and I now would like to go on for an MS-CS from a top tier school. In hindsight, I could have easily structured my degree plan for Excelsior's BS-CIS to fulfull all the requirements for the MS-CS program to which I am applying. Anyway, according to the advisor I spoke to, I need to take only 4 additional courses beyond what was required for my BS-CIS to get in to their program (along with the GRE-CS). These can be graduate courses in the required subjects that can later be applied to the requirements for the MS-CS.
     
  15. dmprantz

    dmprantz New Member

    That's a rather elitist opinion. I also believe it to be wrong. There are two top teir MS programs in town, and while I have not applied to either of them, I am under the impression that they accept CIS holders into their programs. As I mentioned above, if you take the required courses, that's what really matters, not the name of the degree. Oh, and those courses I mentioned earlier...those are the main difference between IS and CS according to ABET.

    Not quite. When CS degrees were new, they were offerred exclussively by mathematics departments. There are now more engineering related degrees, but they are a new phenominon. Business related computer degrees followed mathematics based computer degrees by several years. It took time for computers to be designed, sold to businesses and then a core part of those businesses.

    Opinions are fine, but I wholly disagree with yours. Degrees offerred by business schools should be classified as MIS, and little else. While MIS is similar in name to IS and CIS, it implies a very different field. MIS implies that a degree is business and management in nature. That rather than deeling with individual aspects of computer systems, you deal with computer systems as a whole, and how they can aid a company in making decisions and running smoothly and profitable. MIS degrees almost always require many business classes, and thus are business degrees.

    IS/CIS degrees are more of a hybrid. They tend to allow busines and management courses to be taken, but are not required. They are heavier on the individual system concept of computers rather than they role in the business. They also tend to be heavier in math than an MIS degree, but not as heavy as a CS degree.

    I agree that all of these degrees are similar in nature, but that CS, IS, MIS, EE/CoE are all different degrees, with IS being the closest to CS besides CS itself. It should be noted that Excelsior's CIS degree is offerred by a technology department and not a business department.

    Daniel
     
  16. dmprantz

    dmprantz New Member

    Re: MSCS

    Is one of these four courses Discrete Math? If so, I'd like to point out that current Excelsior students are in fact required to have this course, bringing it even closer to CS, so the number drops down to three. My guess would be Linear, Calc II, and Algorithms as I mentioned above. Is that the case?

    Daniel
     
  17. etech

    etech New Member

    This is very good discussion.

    If I go with Excelsior, I will keep these courses in mind once confirmed by calidris. I will try to include them as much as I can in my degree from Excelsior which I am sure will help later for MSCS and similar programs. Thanks dmprantz for your comments, its helping me a lot.

    I guess a good complement to BSCIS degree would be a MIS degree at Masters level to broaden ones understanding of systems and business.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 6, 2004
  18. etech

    etech New Member

    BTW, I was looking at a MSIS degree and the requirement said a full course in Mathematics is required at undergrad level. What would be a full course ? like Matematics I and II or Calculus I and II ?
     
  19. calidris

    calidris New Member

    MSCS

    The four courses are:
    Discrete Math
    Data Structures and Algorithms
    (the above two courses were not required when I enrolled in Excelsior but are now required)
    Statistics
    Formal Languages

    I suggest that, if possible, one carefully review the requirements for entrance into the graduate program of one's choice before progressing too far in an undergraduate program.
     
  20. dmprantz

    dmprantz New Member

    Re: MSCS

    Thank you for the info. I was partially correct:) One further point which I would like make though: The current requirement by Excelsior is "Data Structures." Courses in data structures usually involve a very basic introduction into algorithms, so may include that in the name, but CS programs usually have another course which is entirely dedicated to algorithms. All of the MSCS programs I have looked at specifically require a course in algorithms. I have no idea whether a course named like that would satisfy the requirement, so if you have a particular MSCS program in mind, I would ask. Also, if you take a course that does not include algorithms in the name, I would still suggest taking it in prep for an MSCS. I agree about researching the MSCS program of your choice before completing an Excelsior CIS degree. Do you know if "Intro to Quantitative Analysis" satisfies the stats requirement at your school?

    Daniel
     

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