With all the outsourcing, should I even get into IT??

I have an Assicoates Degree in Computer Programming.
Of course I cant get a job with that, so I was going to finish the last 2 years online for a Bachelors degree in Computer Info Systems. But now im starting to ask myself if im just beating a deadhorse!!!!

With all the outsourcing, stories of people with Masters Degree in IT competing for HELP DESK crap jobs...its making me rethink twice about even getting into IT.

I'm just sooo sick of the dog eat dog world of business these days. I'm seriously considering becoming a nurse after all.

What do you all think about IT??

 

I am not sure about the IT situation, but I think there are alternatives to IT for computer degrees. Perhaps, instead of going into IT, you could go in the engineering aspect of programming (software and systems engineering for example). I see lots of software engineering positions for high tech companies (especiially military contractors like BAE, Raytheon, and boeing).

Hope this helps,
Bill

 

yes its quite bad out there. I am thinking about profession change but dont know what else to do. All I know is Computers. Not sure what can I study and get into that assures some level of job security. Any ideas ?

 

From what I've read, much depends on the area of the country you're in and the area of IT you'd study for. Hard hit have been the high tech centers (geographically) so areas like Iowa might not be much suffering. An IT area said to be growing is that of "security." Ill-defined, IMO, but worth investigating.

 

I guess that depends on you! I am in the same boat you are in . I am about to finish my bachelors in information technology and I am wondering if I should have gotten my ba instead. but I also had to think would that have made me happy and it wouldnt have and I would eventually would have gone back to get my bit anyway. I also realize that what you want doesnt always pay the bills.So I am considering graduate certificate or post graduate certificate in bussiness administration. I realize that the it world is not or probably will not be where it was 5 years ago as far as it. But I do know that there will always be computers and there will always be people who cant use them and I guareente that will not send all the jobs to foriegn countries. Biggest thing now is homeland security and I wouldnt want foriegn countries doing my security that would be really just plain stupid! Also one more thing to consider look at allthe people that are out of work all of them are no in it the only field that does not seem to be suffering is the health field. you may want to check into health information system,medical coding and billing and bioinfomatics as they seem to utilize computer skills and health skill and there alsoseemstobe a need for qualified applicants. I also plan to check this out if I cant find a job in the it field then I will try health it I 100%sure they are safe from outsourcing. So I guess what I am saying there is still jobs in the it field just not your traditional it jobs!

good luck on your search !

 

Outsourcing is a serious concern.

http://www.washtech.org/wt/

I am in the IT industry for the last 8 yrs. Its scary that about 2~3 million jobs are planned to go to abroad in the next 3~4 yrs.
I think its a good idea to look at other alternatives closer to IT. Thats the reason i am doing my MBA with MIS and Finance or health care concentration (dual). I also have MCSE,CCIE under my belt. I think this would be sufficient to remain employed anywhere.
Another alternative is to have professional certifications like CFA/CPA/CISA which will be there around for a long time. I see a alot of job openings for CPA/CFA and CISA's on monster.com

 

IT possibilities

While it is true that IT is constantly changing, and the shape of the workforce (with offshore contracting) is also in flux, I still feel that IT is a good thing generally to get into. The current market is down because of the bust of the dotcom boom. It is an abberation in my humble opinion.

Have you considered working for a university or college? There are still many positions available across higher education institutions, either in administrative or academic IT. Web skills (J2EE/dotNet) and server architecture skills (Linux/Unix) are hot in this market. The open source community (JA-SIG) is another area to look at in terms of getting insights into what's available.

I am a CIO at a major university system and we are very much on the lookout for people who can perform business analysis, implementation of ERP, and some programming. However, the days of massive in-house development are probably over, at least for the time being.

Hope this helps. The advice about doubling up with a business degree/MBA is wise - not a good idea these days to become too focused on just the programming/computer science end of your education, although that is still an important and necessary skill to have in addition to business analysis skills.

 

A buddy of mine has the following credentials:
BSc in Information Technology, A+, MSCE and has recently completed his Webmaster's certification.

He has been "in and out" of jobs for the past two years. The companies he has worked for have relied on outsourcing for all their IT support needs. He's considering going back to school to obtain a pilot's license and eventually fly for a commercial airline.

The I.T. market doesn't look good. It may be in your best interest to pursue a nursing career. This is only my opinion. You have to follow your "instinct" and go after what is best for you.

Good luck in your studies......

 

Re: IT possibilities

I agree your opinion. But the industry is changing. Big guns like IBM,EDS, Accenture are more interested in getting all their IT contracts done in India or china. This for me is scary. Sooner or later most of the large corporates would be "interested" to send all their IT jobs abroad. For example GE is in a hiring spree in India for its software development center in India. How many IT job openings GE has here?. Plus IT industry will take a plunge once in every 4~5 years due to changes in the "next big thing".
IT operations in a University is different. As long as the university is in Business they need IT support. Same does not apply for companies in retail, finance, services sectors. They can easily opt for outsourcing and increase their bottom line.
The displaced jobs are nevr going to come back. The same thing happened to Manufacturing jobs when they were moved to china. Now 95% of anything we buy is "Made in China".

 

yes It is different in University... but all the job postings atleast that I have come across are senior level jobs and ask for very high level of skills and many years of experience. Some ask for experience in Academic Institution. So how do one get into these?

Do the Universities still have jobs for Network/system/Unix Administration instead of J2EE and ERP ? Did not came across many. Do they have Information System or Data/System Security jobs or something to that affect ? I have 6 years of job experience in IT and have MCSE and CCNA but still find it difficult to get into one. Do you think getting CCIE, Unix and Security certifications help improve my situation and help me get a job in University ?

I always wonder what kind of degree would get you which kind of job. Say if you do Degree in BioInformatics, Health Administration and so on. What kind of jobs can you get with those alone ?

Thanks.

 

Bioinformatics: http://attila.stevens-tech.edu/issa/professional/bio.html



The Master's Program in Bioinformatics will teach you how to use mathematics and computer science to solve problems in molecular biology. There is also a Graduate Certificate Program.

What is Bioinformatics?

With new and powerful techniques to determine the structures of biological molecules and to manipulate biomolecular sequences, a huge amount of data is being generated. The need to process this information so that if can be used for further scientific advances has created new problems. It has been said that "Biology easily has 500 years of exciting problems to work on."

Databases are needed to store the information that is pouring out of laboratories all over the world. Scientists now realize that new database technology specific to certain fields of molecular biology is necessary. Databases need to be able to record changes in our understanding of molecular sequences as we study these sequences. In addition understanding the variations in molecular sequences requires sophisticated techniques of pattern recognition and artificial intelligence.

Complex statistical issues requiring the creation of new mathematical tools have arisen in connection with database searches. In some cases efficient algorithms are needed. For example given two sequences representing biomolecules we want to know how similar they are. This kind of problem must be solved thousands of times a day.

To address these needs Stevens has created a new program in Bioinformatics as a concentration in the Chemical Biology Master's Program. Complementing this is a graduate certificate program in Bioinformatics for those who do not require the rigorous educational foundation supplied by a the master's program.

Master of Science in Chemical Biology - Bioinformatics Concentration

This ten course master's program is an interdisciplinary program intended for scientists with a solid preparation in biology and chemistry.

Chemical Biology Core Courses
Ch 561 Instrumental Analysis Laboratory
Ch 580 Biochemistry I
Ch 582 Biophysical Chemistry
Ch 640 Advanced Organic Chemistry
Ch 668 Computational Biology
Ch 687 Molecular Genetics
Show Chemistry course descriptions


Computer Science Courses
CS 570 Introduction to Programming in C++
CS 590 Introduction to Data Structures and Algorithms
CS 561 Database Management Systems
Show Computer Science course descriptions


Elective (One course from the following list)
Ch 664 Computer Methods in Chemistry
Ch 760 Chemoinformatics
Ch 681 Biochemistry II


Graduate Certificate in Bioinformatics

The Graduate Certificate Program is a four course 12 credit program providing graduate level education and training in bioinformatics for those who do not require a full master's program or who may not wish to commit to it fulltime. It is especially well suited for those who supervise and manage work in this and related fields.
Ch 681 Biochemistry II
Ch 668 Computational Biology
Ch 664 Computer Methods is Chemistry
CS 570 Introduction to Programming in C++


Admission Requirements

A bachelors degree in chemistry with courses or work experience in biology, or a bachelors degree in biology with courses or work experience in chemistry. Generally a 3.0 undergraduate GPA is required as well as two letters of recommendation
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Health information systems:http://www2.fhs.usyd.edu.au/him/M(HIM).htm




Master of
Health Information Management
The Master of Health Information Management (MHIM) is designed to prepare specialists in the design and management of health information systems. It provides participants with core knowledge and skills necessary for the effective practice of health information management. The course focuses on the information needs of health care professionals and facilities. Health information systems are essential for medical decision making and for the planning and administration of health care services. Health Information Managers have a unique range of skills in health and medical sciences, information technology (IT) and information science, management and health research.

Due to the changing patterns of health care delivery and management, and advances in information technologies, qualified Health Information Managers are in demand. Health Information Managers may choose from a wide range of exciting career opportunities in organisations which include health care facilities, Commonwealth and State health departments, information technology firms, health funds and research organisations.



The School of Health Information Management offers the only post-graduate qualification in Health Information Management in Australia.



Who Should Consider this Course?
This course is designed for those wishing to commence a challenging and rewarding career in the expanding field of health information management. The course is ideally suited to health professionals who wish to develop a new career pathway within the health sector. However, applicants with non-health related undergraduate qualifications are also encouraged to apply.

Admission Requirements
In order to qualify for admission to the degree, applicants shall hold:

i) A bachelors degree from an Australian tertiary institution
OR
ii) A bachelors degree from an overseas institution equivalent to an Australian bachelors degree
OR
iii) Experience and/or qualifications as deemed appropriate by the Head of School
OR
iv) Professionals with Existing Qualifications in Health Information Management

Professionals who hold an Associate Diploma in Health Information Management (or equivalent) may seek admission to a qualifying masters program and then proceed to the Masters in Health Information Management.

Professionals holding a Graduate Diploma of Health Science (Health Information Management) with a credit or above average will be able to articulate their qualification to the Master of Health Information Management by completing one 12 credit point unit of study "Research in Health Information Management". This option will only be available until 2006. Further information about these options can be obtained from the Head of School.



Course Structure and Delivery

The course is offered on a one year full-time basis over a full calendar year, or two years part-time over two years. A total of 50 credit points is required to complete the course. The degree consists of eight core professional units (26 credit points) and electives worth 24 credit points. Students may receive credit transfer for core units of study, however credit transfer for elective units must be replaced with alternative units of study. Students work closely with the Graduate Studies Coordinator to develop a suitable program.

The majority of units in the MHIM program are delivered as 3 or 4 day blocks on-campus. Some units are offered in off-campus mode, evening on-campus mode and as workshops.

Units of Study
Credit Points
Core

Information Systems Management I 3
Information Systems Management II 3
International Disease Classification Systems A 3
International Disease Classification Systems B 3
Database Management Systems** 6
Fundamentals of Medicine & Medical Terminology I 3
Fundamentals of Medicine & Medical Terminology II 3
Professional Experience # 2
Electives* (total elective credit points must equal 24)
Microcomputing and Data Mining 6
Health Care Systems 6
Human Resource Management 6
Introduction to Epidemiology 6
Evidence Based Health Care 6
Health Services Management 6
Medicolegal Principles and Practice 6
Casemix Measurement Systems 6
Change Management in an Organisational Context 6
Research Methods I: Design 6
Financial Management in Health Care Facilities
6
* Elective taken may vary in credit points, but the total electives taken must equal 24 credit points
** Block mode during the intersemester break

# Professional experience will be a one week placement undertaken in December

For unit descriptions click on Master of HIM Units of Study
View the Semester 1 (February) Timetable



hope this helps!

 

One avenue of jobs that people often over look in the IT field is the local School district. Some pay well some don't. I was on contract and only made $10 hr but that beat not making anything for 6 months. Some school districts pay well (I have seen entry level jobs in Alief TX paying $38K) Schools are easy to work for, though it can become boring at times fixing the same problem for the same person at least once a week.... Just some ideas.

 

You are right. I had done a project for a large school dist 2 yrs back. Job there can be really boring after some time.

 

Tech jobs and "IT" jobs are not the same. I have heard of some tech support type jobs going to India etc., but otherwise the majority of the jobs going to India and China are R&D related engineering and computer programming positions.
Many large companies do not consider their engineers and programmers as being part of their IT department.
There are certain types of IT jobs that need people locally on site and cannot be done from overseas.
Of course, years down the road, hardware and software could get so simple and user-friendly that configuring troubleshooting and installing LANs, WANs, workstations and servers could get automated to the point that those types of jobs would not require enough skill to warrant a good salary and would also require less people to do the same thing due to the automation.

 

Rancho1 ,

Read both pages of this article
http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2003/0929/058.html

 

Tech Workers, Unions Protest Offshore Outsourcing Conference

http://www.washtech.org/wt/news/industry/display.php?ID_Content=4617


San Francisco - Bay Area high-tech workers upset about the unrelenting rush of U.S. jobs to foreign countries staged a noisy sidewalk protest yesterday morning at a conference promoting the practice of shipping U.S. jobs abroad in order to save on labor costs.

Picketing on the sidewalk in front of a glittering new Hyatt Regency hotel just south of the San Francisco Airport, nearly 50 protestors armed with signs and ardent voices cried, "Offshore CEOs" and "Chip in, don’t chip out" as they marched in unison, angrily calling for government and corporations to curtail offshore outsourcing, which they say will lead to a crippled U.S. economy.

Behind closed curtains, the Offshore Outsourcing Conference featured outsourcing "thought leaders" who briefed corporate executives about the pros and cons of offshoring.

This was the second high-tech worker protest within the past month, following a Labor Day protest at the Bank of America IT building in Concord, Calif., where a high-tech worker took his life this summer, shortly after training his foreign replacement and then promptly receiving a pink slip.

High-tech workers and labor leaders want to publicize the steady flow of U.S. jobs to countries such as India, Pakistan and Russia – all countries that offer cheap labor for software programming, customer service call routing and other technical jobs. Many of these jobs were also once held by now-unemployed U.S. workers.

Nearly 400,000 white collar jobs have already been lost due to the increasingly common business practice of offshore outsourcing, according to the Communications Workers of America. The CWA estimates that an additional three million white collar jobs now located in the United States will be lost to overseas competition by the year 2012.

"This globalization undermines fair trade and creates wealth for companies, but poverty for their employees all over the world," Shelly Kessler, Executive Secretary Treasurer of the San Mateo Labor Council, told a fired-up crowd.

"Offshoring of technical jobs is destroying our communities and local economy and we think when workers pull together to protect against unfair competition we all do better," said Joshua Sperry, who organized the protest and is a labor organizer for CWA Local 9423 in San Jose.

"We think that the tech workers in the Silicon Valley need their own voice," Sperry said.

The organizer of the Offshore Outsourcing Conference said that because the cost savings associated with offshoring are so significant, companies are now unwilling to "buy U.S."

"I’m very compassionate about what they’re about, but I think we need some government legislation if we’re going to see a major trend shift," said conference organizer Gregg V. Rock.

"I think it was a trend that was sped up due to different market conditions and the dot-com bubble, but I don’t think there’s any going back at this point – the genie’s out of the bottle on offshoring," Rock said after the protest ended.

Labor leaders say the effects of offshoring, aside from leaving huge numbers of information technology workers out of work, could be catastrophic for the U.S. economy because fewer college students are choosing high-tech career paths for fear of not finding jobs when they graduate.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
'I never thought of myself as a union activist, but after seeing the high-tech industry do this, now I’m involved.'

-- Cary Snyder, a 20-year veteran of Silicon Valley and now-unemployed IT worker.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

One of the loudest protesters was Cary Snyder, 46, a 20-year veteran of Silicon Valley. Snyder said his current unemployment check doesn’t cover his rent, and with two kids, moving away for a new job isn’t an option. Snyder said his 18-year-old son always considered high-tech for a career, but Snyder has advised him to go into civil engineering if he wants better job prospects after college.

"I feel I have a civil and moral duty to get the word out. I never thought of myself as a union activist," Snyder said, "but after seeing the high-tech industry do this, now I’m involved."

"It’s gonna hurt the U.S. economy and will perpetuate the offshoring because they will have crippled their own industry," Snyder said about U.S. businesses that are sending jobs overseas. "Getting a job in high-tech is a really poor proposition right now. I know hundreds personally and thousands more who are in the same boat as me."

After five years of employment with Intel and a move from New Jersey to San Diego last year to continue working for the company Chris Basak, 48, is now unemployed. He says he will move on to another career – perhaps as an X-ray technician – if he can’t find a tech job within the year.

"This issue is absolutely important; this trend is very scary, a lot of my friends are out of work because their jobs have been offshored," said Basak, who drove from San Diego just to attend the hour-long event.

Alliance@IBM union member Kathy Forte, 54, one of about a dozen women present at the protest, wondered aloud what would happen to her and her 11-year old son if she lost her job at IBM to the offshoring trend.

"I don’t want to come off as a selfish person, but what about my son and my fellow co-workers? I’m not sure what I’d do if I lost my job, because I can’t go back to school now and I can’t go to India," Forte said with a soft smile.

Forte explained that she had worked in the high-tech industry since 1978 in myriad positions, including management, but had finally become outraged about offshoring and decided to get involved. It was her first labor protest, she said.

The protest coalition included TechsUnite.org, WashTech, several Bay Area Communications Workers of America Locals, members of the San Mateo and South Bay Labor Councils, the Teamsters, and other concerned citizens.

Forte’s mother-in-law Lydia Mednick, 78, was one citizen who wanted to lend her support to the offshoring struggle.

"I’m not in the industry, but I’m concerned because I know there are a great number of people out of work," Mednick, said. "The public has to become irate with the situation to make some changes."

The coalition also included the Silicon Valley Toxics Coalition, which has joined the Bay Area labor movement to protest companies that dump high-tech waste in the form of monitors and motherboards on poor countries.

"These companies dump their toxic waste in foreign countries, and dump their expensive workers here at home," said Nobuko Mizoguichi, speaking for the toxics group. "We’re in solidarity with the labor movement – the same forces that are offshoring have cut back on environmental protections and worker safety."

"Pollution is a global problem; air pollution in China will eventually end up here, so who’s benefiting by cutting costs?" Mizoguichi asked the crowd.

IBM employee and Alliance@IBM union member Devin Kruse, 48, thinks there should be a way for workers to compete across national boundaries on a productivity level, which would balance the unfair advantage India and other offshore countries have in paying similarly-educated workers cheaper wages.

"We have to lobby congress and the treasurer and get their attention to adjust the exchange rates so labor rates can be competitive across countries, otherwise it’s gonna wind up hurting this country," said Devin, who lives in Cupertino.

"IBM has to compete too," Kruse willingly acknowledged, "but the government has to find a way to fix the inequities in the system.

"At least it’s a democracy -- we can still vote."

 

You may try undergraduate/graduate studies in biomedical informatics. With a bio-informatics degree you could be hired to design or support medical databases, medical applications, and medical statistical tools.

Ike

 

Thanks Ike. I know System/Network Admin, Unix and Databases. I also have little knowledge in Java OO programming. Do you recommend any Informatics Undergrad/Grad degree that I can look at ?

 

First, lets admit that salarys are sticky as are people. This means that individuals don't like to move or receive a pay OR benefit cut. Add in the fact that almost everyone will admit that their was a tech bubble meaning that salaries were temporarily inflated above a natural long term level and one can see why layoffs have happened, unemployment is a concern, AND jobs have gone overseas. Also 'only' 400,000 are now employed overseas. This is a huge number for you or I, but when the entire tech field is taken into consideration the 400,000 jobs that are overseas is not that significant. For ease we will ignore the fact that many of those jobs were created overseas at a time when their were no qualified individuals to hire stateside, because it was at the peak of the tech bubble. Lets also ignore that many were employed in jobs that were known to be temporary. Y2K caused a huge employment bubble even if one was to ignore everything else going on in technology. Once Y2K + 1 year happened (figure a year since companies don't want to just fire everyone at once, projects had to finish, and some catchup work) you knew there was going to be massive layoffs and a decrease in those employed in the 'tech' field.

Second, except for a few select career fields (doctor, lawyer, engineers, and maybe programmers) many find employment outside of their major in college. This was not the case for almost a decade in CS, but times have changed and I contend that the situation is returning back to 'normal'.

For those that have bothered to read the rest here are my suggestions for the future if you are interested in IT. IT is a fine field to go into and it is not nearly as bad as many news stories have lead you to believe. A large portion of the unemployment is really is due to people not wanting to take a paycut or move. Justfieid? Maybe, but the results is a given.

Anyway, my suggestion is to attempt to find an education that is not a generalized education. Being a unexperienced 'programmer' (i.e. CS graduate) is unlikely to significantly help you out. Being a guru of JAVA, security, Cisco networks, etc... is much better and can be found at many Universities. The NSA has a collection of about 50 different colleges that are qualified to specialize in information assurance. There are various colleges that specialize in web design, computer art, and game design. What is likely to happen when you graduate from college? If your lucky you will receive your dream job. More likely you will receive an imperfect job with a company that has work related to your specialization. You will have to start from the bottom on a job where some individuals are employed do not have a degree. However, with your education you will quickly move ahead and more importantly you will have a lot more opportunities to apply for jobs at other companies once your employed in the 'tech' field.

Believe what you will, but I believe the first two paragraphs are difficult to disagree with.

John

 

I agree with John, I bought my house after I was let go from Dell. I was thinking there must be a job, but then shortly there after everyone was let go. I did find jobs in Houston TX, but based on the fact that I just purchased my first house, I didn't want to move, and I definetely didn't want to move to Houston. Living in a town like Austin is hard on a techie, when there are thousands of un-employed techies and very few jobs. Most techie jobs I found pay around $9/hr and I could make that much being a tire jockie (something I don't want to do again). Luckily I found my contract job. Even better I left the tech industry (I still have one customer from when I was a roving techie) and joined the family business. Though that is starting to slow down with the lack of techie jobs as well.