TESC - where are tests applied?

Okay, maybe I'm just being completely obtuse (a regular state-of-being for me), but I have been all over the TESC website and done searches on every word and phrase I can think of and haven't found what I'm trying to find.

So, can someone please point me in the right direction?

What I want to know is how TESC applies exams. What I mean by that is - where does a test go? For instance, I did find here on the forum a break-down of how ALEKS courses are credited - like ALEKS College Algebra = TESC MAT-121.

Where do I find out how the CLEP and DSST tests are applied? I am trying to put together my son's road map* and I'm starting to get confused.

Also - there's this:
"Courses transferred to Thomas Edison State College are equated to the following levels: 100, 200, 300 or 400. A maximum of two college-level courses equating to the 100 level can be applied toward the liberal studies area of study. A minimum of 18 credits equating to 300 or 400 Thomas Edison State College are required."

I was under the impression that all CLEP tests are only 100 or 200 level, but also that some DSST tests are "upper level." In looking at the DSST website, I can see which ones are designated "upper level" by Dantes. Does this mean they are definitely 300 or 400 level and would satisfy that TESC requirement?

I apologize in advance if this was already covered somewhere here. I did try some searches here on the forum as well as at the TESC site, and didn't find anything, but again, maybe I'm just not thinking of the right phrase to search on?


Thanks in advance for your help!


*Erm, yes, I know the obvious thought is: If he's ready for college studies, shouldn't he be building his degree plan himself? He *is* working on it with me, especially in choosing which tests cover courses that interest him, but we are also using this to meet homeschool high school requirements, so I've got to keep this all within a certain framework.

 

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They screwed around with how you get to the college catalog- it used to be a pdf document, now it's online I think. In any event, go through the homepage and pull up the online college catalog. There are 3 pages of what you need. The first page lists all of the TECEP exams, the next all of the DSST exams and the last lists all the CLEP exams. You get an exact course to course equivalency. My suggestion is to print it out.

I'm also a homeschool mom. Of course you can coordinate his school with his exams. My suggestion is to give his high school transcript regular names, not clep titles. He will have a college transcript(s) through ACE, College Board, etc. Shawn is going to disagree <smile> but I think you should keep it clean and seperate. In other words: English 9, English 10, English 11, English 12. Now, the fact that inside of those courses he managed to take the Comp exam and a few lit exams is just a bonus. That credit will come when he applies to college.

 

I got tired of losing the page so I made a link

If you scroll down on this page all the test equivalents will come up.

Undergraduate Ways to Earn Credit - Thomas Edison State College - acalog ACMS

All of the CLEP do get 100 or 200 level credit, but TESC does give 300-400 level credit for more of the DSST. They also give 300-400 level for some ECE exams.

 

Thank you SO much! I was sure it was out there somewhere and I just wasn't looking in the right place.

I didn't explain myself too well on the homeschool thing. Even though we're going this route, just in case my son changes his mind somewhere along the lines, I want to make sure he's also fulfilled all the requirements for a Bright Futures scholarship. In order to do that, he has to have certain courses on his high school transcripts. I just want to make sure he doesn't spend his time studying for a lot of CLEP/DSST tests before graduating high school, in any given area that I can't turn around and apply to the Bright Futures requirements by way of his HS transcripts. (Am I being even remotely clear here? Heh.)

Some are very obvious. When he takes CLEP biology, his HS transcripts will say "Biology." Some are pretty obvious. Bright Futures requires a health credit, so he's studying "Health," which will be on the HS transcripts, and will eventually take the Here's to Your Health DSST as his semester course final exam. (And I will determine his final grade on his HS transcript by factoring in the work he's done through his studies as well as the score he gets on the DSST test.)

It's just when we get into more specific areas, like "Rise and Fall of the Soviet Union," that I'm trying to be careful. I want to be sure I can plug that in somewhere as well, without burning up the few "personal choice" electives allowed, and leaving gaps in other sections. Or, if I can't, leave that test to be taken after he's officially done high school, or to be taken never if he suddenly says, "Nope. Think I'll just apply to go to X college, instead. Thanks, Mom."

And, yeah. Looking back over that, it's about clear as mud. Sorry. I think I got so muddled in my searches that my brain has ceased operating tonight.

Thanks again for your help!


ETA - Thanks, too, Linda!

 

For the Soviet Union test, how about incorporating it into "World History" or "European History"?

 

That's probably where it'll fall. He's already going to take the Western Civ CLEPS, so "World History" is covered, but I'm thinking the Soviet Union one can cover an additional, separate history like, as you say, "European History," if needed.

But, oi! The 300/400 level thing caught us. We just went through all the lists and had to drop some tests he'd planned so they could be replaced with others that we'd never even considered until now, like "Organizational Behavior."

Funny aside - I am so tired and really need to get to bed, and if there was ever any proof of that, as I was scrolling down the TESC page, looking for the CLEP specific section, I breezed past something that I really thought said, "Registered Pornographic Technologists." It actually said, "Registered Polysomnographic Technogists." In my defense, like I said, I'm really tired. And I was scrolling pretty fast. And I'm old and have bad vision. And... right. My son couldn't stop laughing, because I actually said, "Whoa! Huh? Really?" out loud, then went back to check, and so of course had to explain to him what I was doing.

 

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Remember too, that he CAN take tests that are not on his high school transcript. Consider that if he were in public school, he could take an exam- the credit would be ready and waiting for him upon graduation...his high school wouldn't acknowledge the CLEP in the least. So what? You just have to be attentive to meeting all of his needs - academically and for the scholarship. Where/how you work in the exams can fill in the gaps. With a good plan of attack, you'll be able to set up a really nice overlay that will (hopefully) set up maximum overlap of tests and classes. Besides, if he decides to become a Registered Pornographic Technologist, it'll be moot anyway.

 

Hee. My son will probably never let me live the RPT thing down. I told my husband and he's been trying to come up with a good job description for it.

There will likely be tests that simply don't fall anywhere, but we're trying to concentrate for now on stuff we can apply, not just for the scholarship purposes, but also for his portfolio/teacher evaluation. (One of the FL homeschool accountability requirements.) Still, as you say, *any* test will benefit in the long run, which is really just all kinds of awesome.

That said, if anyone still comes to read this thread I now have a few more questions. (She says, batting her eyes with hopeful pleading.)

1) Does anyone know what the difference is between "Human Services" and "Humanities"? Health is listed in "human services," so I'm thinking that means I can't apply it as a humanities credit as I'd thought and it will have to go into general electives or free electives.

2) Re: Test scores. Some tests say things like "48" for a passing score. Is this based on a 100 scale? Which is to say, if the test has 100 questions and the passing grade is 50, does that really mean you need only 1 out of 2 right to pass? I have a feeling I should know the answer to this one, but my son hasn't taken any CLEPs yet.

3) The TESC liberal arts plan has "examples" of how you can break down the requirements for "Area of Study." Because they are examples, though, and because it also says, "At least two or more different subjects must be included to provide breadth of knowledge in the liberal studies concentration.", I'm assuming you can break the categories down differently, right? In other words, you can have a different amount of credit in "social sciences","humanities", "natural sciences," and "mathematics" than just what is listed in the examples.


And again - THANK YOU all so much for your help. I know I could probably contact the school directly with my questions, but I'm under the impression TESC isn't exactly known for customer service in general, and as my son isn't even a student yet, I don't know how much time I can expect from the school at this point. Plus? Everyone here has been wonderfully helpful and I can't say enough how glad I am to have found this forum.

 

Hee. My son will probably never let me live the RPT thing down. I told my husband and he's been trying to come up with a good job description for it.

There will likely be tests that simply don't fall anywhere, but we're trying to concentrate for now on stuff we can apply, not just for the scholarship purposes, but also for his portfolio/teacher evaluation. (One of the FL homeschool accountability requirements.) Still, as you say, *any* test will benefit in the long run, which is really just all kinds of awesome.

That said, if anyone still comes to read this thread I now have a few more questions. (She says, batting her eyes with hopeful pleading.)

1) Does anyone know what the difference is between "Human Services" and "Humanities"? Health is listed in "human services," so I'm thinking that means I can't apply it as a humanities credit as I'd thought and it will have to go into general electives or free electives.Human Services is going to be FREE ELECTIVE, not general education- not humanities. Waste of time/$...unless one is seeking a degree in human services (social work)

2) Re: Test scores. Some tests say things like "48" for a passing score. Is this based on a 100 scale? Which is to say, if the test has 100 questions and the passing grade is 50, does that really mean you need only 1 out of 2 right to pass? I have a feeling I should know the answer to this one, but my son hasn't taken any CLEPs yet.It's a scaled score. CLEPs are 20-80, so a 48 is a scaled grade consistent with what amounts to about a "C" grade. They won't ever tell you your %, and for each test the scale is calculated differently. If you are talking CLEP, shoot for whatever number is listed on the official site, that is the standard for score acceptance. So, even if a school accepts a lower score, he could later have that credit revoked if the new school has a higher standard. Inside some of the REA books, they give you a generic idea of their best guess. For instance, they say if you are scoring X% on the REA tests it = score X on the real thing....ehhhh...yes and no. Whatever the case, aim higher.

3) The TESC liberal arts plan has "examples" of how you can break down the requirements for "Area of Study." Because they are examples, though, and because it also says, "At least two or more different subjects must be included to provide breadth of knowledge in the liberal studies concentration.", I'm assuming you can break the categories down differently, right? In other words, you can have a different amount of credit in "social sciences","humanities", "natural sciences," and "mathematics" than just what is listed in the examples.Yes, you are free to do it however you want


And again - THANK YOU all so much for your help. I know I could probably contact the school directly with my questions, but I'm under the impression TESC isn't exactly known for customer service in general, and as my son isn't even a student yet, I don't know how much time I can expect from the school at this point. That would be zero. They won't advise over the phone no non-enrolled studeyou won't be able to get an answer to here.

 

And now for the opposing view

I am a firm believer in placing CLEP and DSST on the homeschool transcript. Here's why:

1. CLEP and DSST are acronyms for College Level Examination Program and Dantes Specific Subject Test. The exams are if you will, the final exam for the course. The exam titles are titles for course equivalency.

2. The work was done in your homeschool. If a public school student enrolled at my community college as part of the Wisconsin Youth Options Program and completed College Algebra, College Algebra would be two transcripts, the community college and the high school (as part of the dual enrollment process). Why would CLEP/DSST be different, especially if you are using the CLEP/DSST at TESC?

3. College transcripts will more than likely go to the registrar - NOT admissions. Therefore, I beleive that the homeschool transcript should tell the entire story.

If you would like to see my homeschool daughter's high school transcript, you may do so at:

CLEP Forum - CLEP Study - CLEP Testing - Study Guide and Strategies

Just my two cents.

Shawn

 

One other thought, TESC is the most expensive of the Big 3, (unless you live in NJ). Why TESC instead of Charter Oak or Excelsior?

Shawn

 

Thanks, y'all for the additional info/advice.

Shawn, this is how it broke down for us:

TESC:
1) First Year tuition: $2696
2) Technology fee: $107*
3) Capstone Course: $579
4) Capstone textbooks (used): $94
5) CLEP tests (including testing center fees): $749
6) DSST tests (including testing center fees): $1495
7) Application fee: $75
8) Course Registration fee (for capstone): $47
9) Graduation fee - $257
10) Transcript fee - $5
11) 6-month subscription to ALEKS: $100 (paid in full for special price)

*Not sure this one applies, but am assuming it does.

TOTAL - $6204

EXCELSIOR:
1) Enrollment fee: $895
2) Student Services fee: $440
3) Capstone Course: $1005
4) Capstone textbooks (used) $94**
5) CLEP tests (including testing center fees): $749
6) DSST tests (including testing center fees): $1495
7) Application fee: $75
8) Extra exams to replace free FEMA credits: $897
9) Graduation fee: $495
10) Transcript fee: $12
11) 6-month subscription to ALEKS: $100 (paid in full for special price)

**I did not look up the textbooks for Excelsior, but I did check the prices for the TESC capstone texts, so I simply put down the same price in the comparison.

TOTAL - $6257

Not budgeted: gas for transportation to testing centers, possible purchase of additional study materials if needed.

So, unless I've missed something in there somewhere in all the info I poured over, the cost actually ends up a wash. TESC certainly charges much more for "first year tuition" than Excelsior does for "enrollment," but Excelsior makes up for it in the extra "student services fee," higher costs for several other fees, higher tuition for the capstone, and the need for more testing because they don't accept FEMA raw.

In the end, though, it doesn't matter. I sent the following survey to 29 friends/family members/husband's business associates.

"I need some advice. We are looking at 3 different schools for --- (my son). It is very likely you have not heard of any of them. My question for you is, just based on name alone, if you were a hiring manager at a company (and yes, I know one of you is, so thanks especially!), which name do you view most favorably and which name do you view least favorably? Please explain, as best you can, why you feel that way. Also, please let me know if you *have* heard of any of them, and how that may have affected your opinion."

I've seen lots of opinions online in places like this forum, but the people here know enough about all three schools to form opinions on more than just the name. I wanted to know what people not at all familiar with the schools thought.

Of the 24 people who answered with something more than, "I don't really know," Thomas Edison won by a landslide. (19 votes for "most favorable.") Excelsior came in second, and Charter Oak was a distant third.

While Charter Oak came in third over all, Excelsior received two of the most negative comments. ("What kind of name is that? That sounds like one of those awful cheap schools you see commercials for on late night TV!" - That was from an elderly relative and I think she might have confused it with Everest, but I didn't ask her to clarify it. The other negative comment was rather similar to that one.)

No one chose Charter Oak first, though it got a few second place votes.

Some of Thomas Edison's votes were "lukewarm" at best. ("At least I've heard of Thomas Edison, the man, not the school. Charter Oak sounds like a pre-school." - from the friend I've mentioned on this forum before, the man searching for a job who works in the banking industry.)

Anyway, I know it's subjective. I know my survey is hardly scientifically valid. I even know that just because these people feel this way doesn't mean that every - or even any - hiring agent will. I just wanted *some* idea of people's gut feelings, since, due to our location, I'm assuming it is very likely that my son will often encounter HR reps who haven't heard of any of the schools, and perhaps they will feel the same way as my survey respondents.

And for the record, the hiring manager I do know sent me a long email about choosing the right school based on the student's needs, but, when I pressed him, he picked TESC, as well. (It was one of those, "Well, I would never exclude a potential employee based on school alone unless I knew for a fact the school was bad, but, I'm sure some employers do, so I guess I'll say Thomas Edison has the best ring to it." type of responses.)

After I compiled my survey results, my husband and son decided "Thomas Edison it is!" and I've been working from there ever since.

One final thought. I tend to be very cautious. Because I simply expect everything to get more expensive, I'm actually working from a budget estimate of $9000. I'm hoping that will cover any increases in costs. If not, my son may have to take a bit longer to earn his degree while he works to make up the difference.

ETA - Golly, this is LONG. Sorry about that!

 

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I love type A people. Good job Mom.

 

No, and thanks for the explanation. So you are looking at a bachelors degree then. The capstone course and FEMA explain that. A capstone is not required for the AA at any of the Big 3, although Charter Oak now requires all new students to take a Intro to Online Learning or some title like that.

Shawn

 

The Excelsior BA or BS in Liberal Studies does not have a capstone course. So you can avoid spending $1099.

The Student service fee only applies to the second and subsequent years. If you wait until enough credits are earned this fee can also be avoided.

Excelsior does require a 1-credit Infomation literacy course however but there are lower cost acceptable transfer courses available.

And don't forget there are various IRS deductions and credits avaible from taking college courses.

 

Thanks, Ian.

Technically, the capstone isn't a requirement of TESC, either. Just "highly recommended." I included it in both calculations because I read somewhere that it was possible that all 3 Big-3 schools could possibly start requiring them.

(And also, actually, after reading the description of the course, I thought it might be something my son would enjoy doing.)

W/o it, this means Excelsior would be ahead by $400ish. And that is interesting to know that student fee can be avoided. I thought it was assessed up front. I did see where there was a "second year fee" of $440, but since that was listed on a different page then the "student services fee," I figured they were two different things.

I'm not sure, though, that even a $850 (or possibly less, depending on how much the computer-literacy requirement costs to fulfill) difference would be worth it for us. As I said, I know I'm basing this on something extremely subjective, but I was genuinely surprised by my informal survey results. I had previously leaned heavily toward Excelsior, personally. I was not prepared to have TESC *that* favored by so many people, you know? I certainly didn't even agree with a lot of their reasons for their choices, but I do know more about each school, and it was a "name-only-recognition-opinion" I was looking for. (One of the things that had Excelsior high in my books was a very friendly staff member who answered many questions I had early on, despite the fact that my son is not a student. As Jennifer said, I can't expect that kind of help from TESC.)

My son isn't dead-set on TESC, obviously. And in fact, he may decide to go a scholarship/other school route in the end, though it's very unlikely. If ever a kid was made for self-directed learning, he's the one. He learns things at an incredible rate. Regardless, we are definitely not calling anything "set-in-stone" yet.

And thanks for the tip on the taxes. I will certainly look in to it more. I know my husband has picked up some information, but we haven't spent much time on that subject yet.