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  1. #1
    bdub5 is offline Registered User
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    Grad Cert or second Master's?

    I currently have a MBA from St Joseph's University . Recently I have gotten interested in Business/Data Analytics. Does it make sense to pursue another Master's or would a Grad Cert do the trick? And would that Cert hold the same weight as a masters when applying to jobs since I already have an MBA ? From what I've seen most Grad Certs are the concentration courses of the degree anyway.

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Gabe F. is offline Registered User
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    You say you have an interest, but I'm curious to know to what extent you have measured your interest. I ask because you may wish to really roll your sleeves up before deciding to commit to one program or another. Have you considered any of the business analytics MOOC offerings on Coursera, edX, or elsewhere?

    I took a course in my MBA program called "Accounting for Managers" and I really liked it. I liked it so much that I briefly considered the possibility of making it a career including looking at programs much like you're currently doing. However, I took two managerial accounting courses on Coursera and discovered I most certainly did NOT enjoy managerial accounting . BUT... it was a very cheap, non-committal way for me to gauge my interest before making a huge plunge of time and money.

  3. #3
    RFValve is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdub5 View Post
    I currently have a MBA from St Joseph's University . Recently I have gotten interested in Business/Data Analytics. Does it make sense to pursue another Master's or would a Grad Cert do the trick? And would that Cert hold the same weight as a masters when applying to jobs since I already have an MBA ? From what I've seen most Grad Certs are the concentration courses of the degree anyway.

    Thanks
    It depends what is the purpose of this certificate or Masters. If you want it just to be able to teach in a second subject, a graduate certificate is normally enough. If you want it for a career change and have unrelated education the MS might be better. Let's say that you are currently working in HR and now want to go into analytics, then the certificate might not be enough as people with a Masters are going to be given priority.

    Graduate certificates are perfect to complement your existing career and education . Let's say you have a MAsters in Engineering or Math and want to go into business Analytics, the certificate would be ideal but not so much if you have unrelated education and experience.

  4. #4
    catlin0915 is offline Registered User
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    I'm currently working on my MBA and have considered teaching nights or online as a way to get a some extra money. I don't think a a DBA or phd would suit me so I was thinking about graduate certificates as well. I have look at three schools primarily and have been confused and would like to know if someone could clarify.
    Notre Dame has an Executive Certificate program that grants a certificate with just two courses that will grant a total of 3.2 CEUs. Would this even be considered a graduate course of three credit hours?
    I looked at Cornell graduate certificates that stated six to eight courses each being only two weeks long. The paper at the end may be pretty, but would these courses even help if I wanted to teach another subject?
    Amberton University which isn't known, but has RA and had graduate certificates that are actually worth 3 credit hours. Would it be better off going with the unknown school that is offering courses worth credit hours, but will the institutes name on the certificate balance out this problem.
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  5. #5
    RFValve is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by catlin0915 View Post
    I'm currently working on my MBA and have considered teaching nights or online as a way to get a some extra money. I don't think a a DBA or phd would suit me so I was thinking about graduate certificates as well. I have look at three schools primarily and have been confused and would like to know if someone could clarify.
    Notre Dame has an Executive Certificate program that grants a certificate with just two courses that will grant a total of 3.2 CEUs. Would this even be considered a graduate course of three credit hours?
    I looked at Cornell graduate certificates that stated six to eight courses each being only two weeks long. The paper at the end may be pretty, but would these courses even help if I wanted to teach another subject?
    Amberton University which isn't known, but has RA and had graduate certificates that are actually worth 3 credit hours. Would it be better off going with the unknown school that is offering courses worth credit hours, but will the institutes name on the certificate balance out this problem.
    This depends on the school but most would require a Masters in a teaching field or a Masters and 18 graduate credits in a teaching field. However, this depends a lot on the school and there is no general rule that applies here, sometimes you have people with a CPA and a general MBA that teach accounting or people with a general MBA and a CFA that teach finance. Sometimes you have a person with a BSc in Math or Engineering and a general MBA that teaches general statistics.

    I have a MS in Accounting and Finance with 18 credits in Finance, although I qualify to teach both Accounting and Finance most of the time people with CPAs are given preference over people with a MSc in Accounting so I normally teach finance and rarely accounting .

    A 2 course graduate certificate might or might not do the trick so my suggestion would be to get a 18 credit certificate to be sure. Also, many times your resume plays an important role, you might have only a 6 credit certificate but an excellent record of teaching the field and publications that might give you the job.

    Get two or maximum 3 areas of specialization, your resume is not going to be credible if you hold 10 certificates in 10 different areas. Most schools do not want those that just teach anything but someone that specializes in a field, however, sometimes one field dries out so you need a second one to keep yourself busy enough so two areas that are compatible work well (e.g. marketing and supply chain, accounting and finance, etc).

    The DBA or PhD is not a requirement but most of the times you have people that have them. I would get a least a general DBA to complement your MS degree, there is one cheap DBA was discussed here from California Southern that is less than 30K and is RA. The other option is to get a foreign degree from South Africa is budget is an issue, the problem is that most people that go into adjunct work have a doctorate so it is going to get harder and harder to get work without one. The other option is to get a certification in demand such as CPA , CFA or PMP but I honestly think is easier to get a low profile DBA than getting a CFA or CPA .
    Last edited by RFValve; 06-28-2016 at 10:40 PM.

  6. #6
    Neuhaus is offline Registered User
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    Let me just clarify a few things...

    Graduate Certificate - You get a certificate by completing graduate level coursework for graduate level credit.
    Non-credit certificates - You don't earn credit but you get a pretty piece of paper

    The certificates available through eCornell and Notre Dame College are not graduate certificates. You earn CEUs not credits. They will help you earn a nice respectable credential to hang on your wall but they are not going to meet requirements for teaching .

    Data analytics is the hot new thing. There are degree programs popping up everywhere. But more important than what degree you list is the amount of skill and experience you bring to data analytics. It is possible to earn, for example, an MS in Health Informatics from Excelsior which does not appear to require any extensive programming or statistical modeling. That's going to give you a very different skillset than a comparable degree from Carnegie Mellon.

    If you are applying for a job that requires true big data analytic work then being able to code in Python and/or R and actual do analytic work is more important than a credential. That skill trumps a certificate or even a Masters. And there are a good number of data analysts who don't have a degree in "Data Analytics" at all.

    If this is a field that you are considering entering then you should consider some more affordable and low risk options before you do anything drastic. Coursera offers a Verified Certificate in Data Analytics through Johns Hopkins University. You'll learn some R. You'll actually work through some problems. If you can't get into that program then you can save yourself the heartache of enrolling and then withdrawing from a degree program. If you complete the program you can expand your learning through programs at Udacity or even others through Coursera or EdX. Those skills are going to take a lot of work to build and they should be developed before you embark on a graduate level program in this field anyway.

    Many do go on and make that career shift using only verified certificates because they also have a portfolio of projects upon completing these programs. Or you can continue your education .

    As for this:

    Let's say that you are currently working in HR and now want to go into analytics, then the certificate might not be enough as people with a Masters are going to be given priority.
    It's just not how hiring works. At all. Ever. If you are working in HR and want to go into analytics the most likely transition point would be to move into HR Analytics. Making such a move would be possible with one's existing HR credentials with the addition of more analytic skills. Degrees do not guide these hiring decisions. That isn't just at my organization that's a hiring trend, in general. Can a candidate trick their way into a job with a degree they earned without properly developing/maintaining the underlying skills that are assumed? Yes. But employers are wising up to the fact that the C.S. degree from 1998 followed by nearly 20 years of neglecting to actually code anything isn't actually more valuable than the person without a C.S. degree who picked up coding skills at a series of boot camps.
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  7. #7
    RFValve is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neuhaus View Post
    Let me just clarify a few things...

    Graduate Certificate - You get a certificate by completing graduate level coursework for graduate level credit.
    Some of the continuing education certificates are actually credit. I completed a security certificate from Stanford and was given 6 graduate credits.

    Also, bear in mind that 18 graduate credits in the teaching field is the minimum requirement for adjunct work at most schools but my experience also tells me that a MS degree is many times preferred. In few words, in theory a general MBA and a graduate certificate in Finance should give you a teaching opportunity in Finance but a person with a MS in Finance degree seems to have many times the advantage.

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  9. #8
    Neuhaus is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFValve View Post
    Some of the continuing education certificates are actually credit. I completed a security certificate from Stanford and was given 6 graduate credits.

    Also, bear in mind that 18 graduate credits in the teaching field is the minimum requirement for adjunct work at most schools but my experience also tells me that a MS degree is many times preferred. In few words, in theory a general MBA and a graduate certificate in Finance should give you a teaching opportunity in Finance but a person with a MS in Finance degree seems to have many times the advantage.
    Stanford very clearly lists out their certificates as either continuing education (non-credit such as their project management program) or graduate certificate (such as their various CS certificates). Regardless of the nomenclature it is Important to ensure that the program offers credits, not CEUs, if academic credit is desired.

    Of course, some programs also offer "extension credit" which may, or may not, be treated like actual academic credit for transfer purposes.

    There is also much more wiggle room in adjunct hiring than you are letting on. I have a colleague who teaches as an adjunct at Binghamton University despite not having a graduate degree at all. His CPA was sufficient to teaching as an accounting adjunct. I teach as an adjunct at a CC in Human Resources . Yet, I don't have a graduate degree in HR Management . My degree in general management, coupled with my HR certifications and professional experience, were sufficient.

    Different schools have different needs and draw from different pools. The guy at BU was rejected by the CC where I teach. They don't value the CPA as much as Binghamton University which has a top ranked accounting program and generally expects many of their grads to go in and take the CPA exam.

    As tempting as it is to simply say that degree x will likely prevail over degree y there's just much more to it than that.
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  10. #9
    Kizmet is offline Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neuhaus View Post
    As tempting as it is to simply say that degree x will likely prevail over degree y there's just much more to it than that.
    One of my favorite examples of this is Alasdair MacIntyre, a world famous Philosopher who has no Doctoral degree at all. In a field where a PhD is an absolute minimum qualification he has none. Despite this he has been a tenured instructor at several major universities. Obviously he's a brilliant guy but his appointments have come as the result of his published work.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alasdair_MacIntyre
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  11. #10
    cookderosa is offline Resident Chef
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdub5 View Post
    I currently have a MBA from St Joseph's University . Recently I have gotten interested in Business/Data Analytics. Does it make sense to pursue another Master's or would a Grad Cert do the trick? And would that Cert hold the same weight as a masters when applying to jobs since I already have an MBA ? From what I've seen most Grad Certs are the concentration courses of the degree anyway.

    Thanks
    Do you even need that for a career shift? Have you checked that either would be a good ROI?
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  12. #11
    RFValve is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kizmet View Post
    One of my favorite examples of this is Alasdair MacIntyre, a world famous Philosopher who has no Doctoral degree at all. In a field where a PhD is an absolute minimum qualification he has none. Despite this he has been a tenured instructor at several major universities. Obviously he's a brilliant guy but his appointments have come as the result of his published work.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alasdair_MacIntyre
    In England, it is quite common to see academics without a PhD. British schools pay low salaries and this does not attract a lot of people into academics. Also, they don't have a tenure system so it becomes even less attractive for someone to become an academic.

    I have met quite few British academics that hold PhDs and have quite modest life styles that are comparable to the average worker in the UK.

  13. #12
    Kizmet is offline Moderator
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    Well, I guess I've got two things that come to my mind in response. The first is that MacIntyre has spent his entire career teaching in the USA, almost all of which was at top tier/Ivy League schools. The second is just a basic challenge to your statement. I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "quite common," but I'd be willing to bet that if you look at the Top Ten universities in the UK, and you look at the list of full-time faculty teaching in the liberal arts departments, I'll bet you can't show me a 10 people teaching with nothing higher than a Masters degree. I'm betting it's quite rare.
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