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  1. #1
    Taxing is offline Registered User
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    AACSB Bridge or DBA

    I am a JD/LLM/CPA currently working as a tax lawyer that would like to enter academia. The legal academia market has dried up and from what I understand there are a lot of positions in the business academia market especially in accounting and finance.

    Because I have a JD and LLM in tax, I could be considered academically qualified for a position teaching tax at an AACSB school. I worked in auditing for several years and would like to bolster my credentials to teach accounting .

    I have looked at the AACSB post-doctoral bridge programs and my JD qualifies me (several people have attended the programs with a JD as their doctorate). The AACSB bridge would make me academically qualified in accounting and finance for five years. The program is approximately $26K and can be completed in less than a year. I am leaning toward this program because I would like to pursue positions for Fall 2016. Previous graduates have generally already been employed in academia, so I am concerned about whether the program would help me to find a position. I am also concerned that 2 out of the 5 programs have closed due to a lack of interest. It would seem that if demand for AACSB qualified faculty is as great as advertised or there was demand for graduates of these bridge programs the programs would not have closed.

    The other option I am considering is an AACSB accredited part-time/distance DBA. I would prefer to do a program that allows a major in accounting but am open to other programs. The only AACSB programs that allow an accounting major I have identified are KSU and JSU. These programs are roughly 80K to 100K expecially once you consider travel cost. I am very concerned about the time requirements for the DBA. I have a very busy and demanding schedule. The DBA programs claim to require 20-30 hours a week and one weekend a month. I do have more confidence that the AACSB DBA would provide opportunity to get a TT position, however, it would likely delay my job search at least until the dissertation phase.

    Does anyone have input on the bridge programs, DBA programs, and/or what combination with my credentials would be sufficient?

  2. #2
    novadar is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taxing View Post
    I have looked at the AACSB post-doctoral bridge programs and my JD qualifies me (several people have attended the programs with a JD as their doctorate). The AACSB bridge would make me academically qualified in accounting and finance for five years.
    Not quite sure where you have seen this but I just reviewed each of the 3 Post-Doc Bridge programs and all say PhD or Earned Doctorate. Sorry but a JD does not qualify as an "earned Doctorate". The only program to not say PhD (at Toledo) lists the qualifying academic disciplines and unfortunately Law is not one.

    http://warrington.ufl.edu/graduate/a...cationForm.pdf

    "Please submit this application form with curriculum vitae, statement of purpose, and Ph.D. transcripts via email at"


    AACSB-Endorsed Post-Doctoral Bridge to Business Program | French Business School | Grenoble Ecole de Management

    AACSB-ENDORSED POST-DOCTORAL BRIDGE TO BUSINESS PROGRAM

    Overview
    Program
    Employability
    Admission & application
    PRACTICAL INFORMATION

    Program duration
    1 year

    Entry requirements
    PhD (non-business)



    Admissions

    ADMISSIONS
    The eligibility requirements for entry into the program include an earned doctorate with an established ability to conduct research. While other disciplines will be considered, the primary disciplines include:

    Statistics
    Mathematics
    Computer Sciences
    Economics
    Econometrics
    Industrial Organizational Psychology
    Psychology
    Engineering - all disciplines
    Public Administration
    Higher Education
    Sciences - all disciplines, particularly:
    Chemistry
    Physics
    Biology
    Geology



    The only Bridge program that could work in your favor is "The AACSB Bridge Program" for Executives. This program amazingly lists nothing about qualifying degrees.
    AACSB Events | The AACSB Bridge Program.

    Unless you worked as very senior level executive (SVP or possibly VP at a large company) this would be a real long shot. I suspect that one would have a difficult if not impossible time becoming tenure track with this option. The brochure lists quotes from a "Lecturer" and "Adjunct Professor". Hmmm.

    Your only other option as you list is a DBA (or PhD) program.
    Last edited by novadar; 09-14-2015 at 07:15 PM.
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  3. #3
    FTFaculty is offline Registered User
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    The UF Bridge Program accepts JDs. Here are links to the bios of JD-only participants in the academic accounting PDB program at UF:

    http://warrington.ufl.edu/graduate/a...FrankOhara.pdf

    http://warrington.ufl.edu/graduate/a..._GailMoore.pdf

    http://warrington.ufl.edu/graduate/a...lMalmfeldt.pdf
    Last edited by FTFaculty; 09-15-2015 at 08:38 AM.

  4. #4
    FTFaculty is offline Registered User
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    Look into UK programs. I'd check first with Warwick, which has a worldwide reputation far exceeding either Kennesaw or Georgia State, which are good schools but nowhere approaching Warwick. Robert McGee, who has posted here before, received his PhD in accounting by research only through Warwick. I don't know about what residencies he had to do, but it can generally be arranged with minimal travel. And heck yes, they are AACSB.

    Now, another issue, why do you need a DBA or PDB? You are AQ right now to teach taxation at an AACSB school. Cal Tech, for example, arguably among the top five universities in the U.S., was recently advertising for a tax prof in accounting and they were looking for either a PhD or some combo of JD/LLM/CPA --and you have all three. Boise State was looking for the same in a recent ad. If you look around, you'll notice that about one out of every four tax positions in accounting advertised on Higher Ed Jobs or The Chronicle of Higher Education job search sites specifically mention the JD/LLM or JD/CPA as an acceptable alternative to a PhD in accounting . As for those who advertise "PhD in accounting required", if you contacted the chairs and asked about their potential interest in a JD/LLM/CPA with experience as a tax attorney, you'd likely hear some say "Yeah, sure, shoot me a vita, we're interested." This is something that I know and do not have to speculate about, I teach full time in an accounting department at an AACSB university, and tax is the highest demand subcategory of accounting , which is itself perhaps the highest-demand field in academia. Profs are starting in the range of $140 to $200K, and departments are desperate for tax experts.

    You have a very nice combo platter there with the experience, JD, LLM and CPA . My former department chair (who was a very nicely-paid head over 20-some accounting profs), had your credentials exactly. The only possible gap is your vita is teaching , I don't know if you have any experience there, and you should get some if you haven't taught before. You should also join the AAA and perhaps think about some publishing. With a bit of adjuncting and a peer-reviewed pub in a tax journal, I bet you'd be fighting off the schools bidding for your services, so long as you are not crazy or have bad body odor--and even then, in taxation , concessions are often made.
    Last edited by FTFaculty; 09-15-2015 at 09:11 AM. Reason: Pedantic over-attention to detail and insecurity about misspellings

  5. #5
    FTFaculty is offline Registered User
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    By the way, Taxing, I'm working on three articles right now, one in taxation , two in fraud. I am interested in a collaborator on the third, a professional in industry would be perfect. And if you're not interested in the third article, heck, we could start up a fourth that hits your areas of expertise. I have published in taxation before in an academic journal. Unless you've done so, you need some publishing experience, I can help you get it and learn the ropes. I need more pubs, and you can help me with that end. Quid pro quo. If you're interested, just reply here, then we can start a PM exchange and exchange email info. Your call.

  6. #6
    Ted Heiks is offline Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taxing View Post
    KSU and JSU
    Would that be Kennesaw State University and Jacksonville State University? If not, who?
    Theo the Educated Derelict
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  7. #7
    edowave is offline Registered User
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    For a TT position, nobody cares what your professional experience is, or how good of a teacher you are. They care about how much grant money you can pull in, and how much research you can crank out.

    Even if you do the UF AACSB Bridge program and become "qualified", I would think a JD only holder would be at the bottom of the pile against someone with a research background. Part of it would depend on which law school you graduated from.

    My advice: Call the graduate advisor for the accounting department at UF (or any big accounting AACSB university). Tell them you are a JD considering the Bridge program or a traditional or part-time PhD/DBA program. See what they say. They would be more up-to-date on what the academic market is like right now.
    Last edited by edowave; 09-15-2015 at 10:35 AM.
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  9. #8
    FTFaculty is offline Registered User
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    I totally understand what you're saying as applied to many fields, Endo, but in accounting , hardly anyone gets grants (those are virtually all sucked up by the hard sciences and sometimes social sciences ). In eight years specifically as an accounting academic at a good-sized uni, I know of exactly one colleague who landed a grant, so no department chair in their right mind makes that a criterion (except maybe the tip top schools, who can afford to be unreasonable).

    They do care about professional experience, they love accounting academics with Big Four experience, business in general requires professional experience, they're not so hot on people who try to blow into a business academic position straight from a PhD program without at least 3 to 5 years fighting the good fight in industry. I know of only one colleague who got a job without business experience, and that person has a PhD from Yale and exudes brilliance and competence--kind of a special case.

    Finally, as for taxation /accounting , again, this is my field and I follow the market big time. It is stupid hot, ridiculous hot, insane unreasonable hot. A JD/LLM/CPA is not at the bottom of the pile, there is no bottom of the pile in taxation for a qualified candidate, unless you want to define "bottom of the pile" as $100K a year for a TT 9 month position. At least for anything bigger than a tiny liberal arts college, that's the bottom for a qualified new hire in accounting /taxation , at my school they start at $140K+, at the larger universities in another part of my state, the salaries run more like $190 to $200K to start.

  10. #9
    FTFaculty is offline Registered User
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    By the way, Taxing, if you want to specifically teach accounting as opposed to taxation within accounting , such as teaching principles of accounting or Intermediate I,II,III, audit, international, AIS, etc., your best bet is to pick up 15 to 18 grad credit hours in accounting , that would get you qualified and kosher at the average university. Maybe employ a two step attack: get in the door via taxation , then, while at the university, take a grad course a semester on the side, should get you there or close in a couple years so you could work your way all the way into accounting . But still, that taxation slot would be good enough to be a bona fide member of the TT accounting faculty at an AACSB.

  11. #10
    Taxing is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by FTFaculty View Post
    If you're interested, just reply here, then we can start a PM exchange and exchange email info. Your call.
    Thank you for your input. I'm interested. An interest in financial fraud is part of why I went to law school. PM me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Heiks View Post
    Would that be Kennesaw State University and Jacksonville State University? If not, who?
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by edowave View Post
    Even if you do the UF AACSB Bridge program and become "qualified", I would think a JD only holder would be at the bottom of the pile against someone with a research background. Part of it would depend on which law school you graduated from.
    As a JD and LLM holder I am already "qualified" in taxation and business law. The bridge program would be to extend these qualifications to accounting . JD holders are actually quite common as business faculty. My JD is from a top 25 program. I graduated Magna Cum Laude. I was an editor on the law review and worked as a research assitant for a tax law professor. My LLM is from one of the top 3 schools for tax law in the US. After graduating, I did a federal clerkship which is essentially a year of doing research and writing for a judge.

    Quote Originally Posted by edowave View Post
    My advice: Call the graduate advisor for the accounting department at UF (or any big accounting AACSB university). Tell them you are a JD considering the Bridge program or a traditional or part-time PhD/DBA program. See what they say. They would be more up-to-date on what the academic market is like right now.
    I have talked to accounting professors. The recommended route is of course to do a traditional PhD program. I am really not able to consider traditional programs at this point. The brige program is still relatively unknown. A "big accounting AACSB university" (UF is a top program) is not as likely to be interested as one of the hundreds of other AACSB accredited business programs at small to midsize universities. The market for academically qualified faculty is supposed to be very strong right now. There are not enough graduates from PhD programs in accounting to fill the available positions and it is projected to get worse due to retirements.

    Quote Originally Posted by FTFaculty View Post
    By the way, Taxing, if you want to specifically teach accounting as opposed to taxation within accounting, such as teaching principles of accounting or Intermediate I,II,III, audit, international, AIS, etc., your best bet is to pick up 15 to 18 grad credit hours in accounting, that would get you qualified and kosher at the average university.
    I have thought about taking the extra graduate credits in accounting . Although, I would be fine just teaching taxation . Really just looking to add to my qualifications to help land a position. I have debated about whether I would be better off trying to get a year of a DBA program under my belt than to take the accounting classes.

  12. #11
    novadar is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by FTFaculty View Post
    The UF Bridge Program accepts JDs. Here are links to the bios of JD-only participants in the academic accounting PDB program at UF:

    http://warrington.ufl.edu/graduate/a...FrankOhara.pdf

    http://warrington.ufl.edu/graduate/a..._GailMoore.pdf

    http://warrington.ufl.edu/graduate/a...lMalmfeldt.pdf
    Wow, I humbly stand corrected (at least in practice - the application does say "PhD".

    I love how the last individual lists the Bridge on his CV:

    Program grants the same initial “Academically Qualified” status for 5 years from the AACSB as a Ph.D. in Accounting from a properly accredited school
    -------

  13. #12
    FTFaculty is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by novadar View Post
    Wow, I humbly stand corrected (at least in practice - the application does say "PhD".

    I love how the last individual lists the Bridge on his CV:

    Program grants the same initial “Academically Qualified” status for 5 years from the AACSB as a Ph.D. in Accounting from a properly accredited school
    S'alright, I seldom stand humbly corrected, I try everything I can to wiggle out and justify myself when corrected. Ask my wife, kids.

  14. #13
    FTFaculty is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taxing View Post
    I am a JD/LLM/CPA currently working as a tax lawyer that would like to enter academia...what combination with my credentials would be sufficient?
    As I said, the combo you have is sufficient to get on the TT. Look what posted this week:

    Assistant or Associate Professor (#495318) - Accounting & Business Law; Full-time...
    Qualifications: The successful candidate must have a LL.M. in Tax or a PhD (or ABD near completion) from an AACSB accredited program or from an institution with an equivalent reputation.

    https://www.higheredjobs.com/faculty...Business%20Law

    By the way, what anyone wanting to get into academia in accountancy should be loving is this: Not only are they coming down off their ivory pedestals and "dipping down" into the LLMs (if it be proper to call that a "dipping down") and treating them as equivalent to the PhDs, they're also going in and hiring people straight out of PhD programs when they're not even set to do the viva yet. Some people are probably getting hired with just the coursework when they've scarcely even started their dissertations yet, and they have jobs lined up @ $150K waiting for them next fall right after they defend. Our last hire? We snagged him from a DBA program last fall, he defended a couple weeks before he started here last month. I don't even want to think what he's going to make, probably almost twice what I make.

    Another thing job seekers have to love, the accounting programs are getting desperate enough that now they're starting to say "AACSB or equivalent institution." Beautiful words. In my mind, that opens the door for UNISA, Heriot-Watt, pretty much any UK Royal Chartered uni, non-AACSB Aussie schools, New Zealand, etc.
    Last edited by FTFaculty; 09-15-2015 at 01:20 PM.

  15. #14
    Taxing is offline Registered User
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    I attempted to reply yesterday but it apparently did not post. So here it goes again....

    Quote Originally Posted by FTFaculty View Post
    If you're interested, just reply here, then we can start a PM exchange and exchange email info. Your call.
    Thank you for all the information. I am definitely interested. PM me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Heiks View Post
    Would that be Kennesaw State University and Jacksonville State University? If not, who?
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by edowave View Post
    Even if you do the UF AACSB Bridge program and become "qualified", I would think a JD only holder would be at the bottom of the pile against someone with a research background. Part of it would depend on which law school you graduated from.
    I am actually already "qualified" in tax and business law. I'm considering the Bridge program to extend the qualification to accounting to go along with my CPA . JDs are actually very common in business programs and law relates to business, especially accounting , much better than most fields. I am a magna cum laude graduate of a top 25 JD program. I was an editor on the law review for the school. My LLM is from one of the top 3 tax law programs in the US. After law school, I clerked for a federal judge which is essentially a year spent researching and writing for a judge.

    Quote Originally Posted by edowave View Post
    My advice: Call the graduate advisor for the accounting department at UF (or any big accounting AACSB university). Tell them you are a JD considering the Bridge program or a traditional or part-time PhD/DBA program. See what they say. They would be more up-to-date on what the academic market is like right now.
    I have talked to some accounting professors and most have encouraged me to pursue a PhD in accounting . The bridge program is still relatively unknown. The academic market in accounting is supposed to be excellent right now. I am not trying to break into "a big accounting AACSB university" as much as one of the hundreds of midsized AACSB accredited universities.

    Quote Originally Posted by FTFaculty View Post
    By the way, Taxing, if you want to specifically teach accounting as opposed to taxation within accounting, such as teaching principles of accounting or Intermediate I,II,III, audit, international, AIS, etc., your best bet is to pick up 15 to 18 grad credit hours in accounting, that would get you qualified and kosher at the average university.
    I have thought about pursuing this route. I would be fine teaching taxation and am really just looking to make myself more marketable. I wonder if I would be better off expending the effort and funds on the first year of a DBA program. I think the KSU program is 48 hours and the first year is 18 hours.

    Quote Originally Posted by FTFaculty View Post
    As I said, the combo you have is sufficient to get on the TT. Look what posted this week: . . . .

    We snagged him from a DBA program last fall, he defended a couple weeks before he started here last month. I don't even want to think what he's going to make, probably almost twice what I make.
    I have been watching the postings and have noticed a couple that specifically mention the JD/LLM. Getting the family on board with another move may be more difficult than finding a position! There are a couple postings with local universities that I have decided to apply and see where it takes me. Do you mind sharing which DBA program the new hire came from?

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  17. #15
    edowave is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by FTFaculty View Post
    Our last hire? We snagged him from a DBA program last fall, he defended a couple weeks before he started here last month. I don't even want to think what he's going to make, probably almost twice what I make.
    Sounds like I may need to go back to UF to do the bridge program in accounting !
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  18. #16
    FTFaculty is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by edowave View Post
    Sounds like I may need to go back to UF to do the bridge program in accounting!
    I tell you what, Endo, I am not kidding, you get into a DBL program and do it, you will be rocking in accounting . If you have any interest in the field, any reasonable education in it, even in undergrad, you can make that one work for you. That is no joke or idle talk. You can also do the other business fields if accounting seems unpalatable. I have a colleague who did the marketing track at the UF DBL, PhD in sociology , no biz background that I know of, and that person landed a job in marketing with us, an average state uni, for $130K.

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