Doctorates Schools Narrowed Down, Can't find enough Info

Hey everyone, I am a new member here (first post) however I have been lurking this forum for the last 6 months or so. Here is a little quick background about my educational history: I hold a BA in Business Admin. with a concentration in Finance, and I just recently finished my MBA with a concentration in Finance, both degrees came from Governors State University, one of the Illinois state schools. What might catch some of you off guard is that I am only 22. I graduated high school in 2008, I took the fall semester off, finished a bachelors degree in 3 years and my MBA in 10 months both with a 3.8 GPA. Needless to say, I am driven.

With this economy, I was hoping to be able to find a job with my Masters, but I have had no luck so far so I decided I am going to continue into a doctorates program online. I have narrowed down the list to four different schools, three of which have been covered many times over on this forum, however the fourth has only been mentioned in passing and the information/questions that I am looking for and to have answered I can not seem to find.

The schools I am looking at are:
1. Indiana Institute of Technology
2. Walden University
3. University of Phoenix
4. Grand Canyon University

My main questions are:

1. Would Indiana Tech appear better to HR personnel and recruiters as it is a Non-Profit Indiana school than the other three for-profit schools listed? As Indiana Tech's program from first glance does not mention that it is an online degree on their site even though it is, would this "hidden online program" be a benefit as those looking at a resume would not know it is an online program and upon face value digging on IIT's website, would see it said nothing about online?

2. Between Walden and Phoenix, which school, in opinion is given more credibility in a business doctorates from HR personnel and recruiters?

3. Is there anyone on this forum that is in the Indiana Tech program? Walden? What are your opinions on the program?


Thank you for your time and your help. I am sorry if any of the above questions were covered in the past on here. I might have missed some of the information in my search.

Thanks again, and happy new year!

Adam

 

I don't doubt that UofP offers an OK education, but there are many who would consider a degree from there as being substandard. Where I work the HR opinion seems to be that UofP is just a step above a degree mill (I understand it's not, I'm sharing local perception). With that said, I do see their degree's on walls occasionally. Grand Canyon gets anecdotal praise here and there, same for Walden...though they seem really expensive to me. Never heard of the other school.

Frankly, at 22, I think you lack experience more than education. I would urge you to find places to work/gain experience. Even quality internships or volunteer work might serve you better than dropping 10's of thousands on more theory. YMMV

Best,
Reb

 

I would second Steve's advise considering your age and experience. Full-time AACSB PhD would be the way to go.

There are many AACSB accredited Doctoral programs out there. Expand your list to include them too. Some of them:
University of Liverpool - DBA,
Grenoble eclole de management - DBA, (top ranked) - They have a fulltime PHD program
Aston Bisiness School - DBA - They have a fulltime PHD program
and there are many of them.

Visit Top-20 DBA ranking for an unofficial ranking list.

AACSB list of DBA programs:
BestBizSchools | Learn More About Undergraduate Business Degree Programs and Search AACSB-Accredited Schools

 

I think an additional degree might be more appropriate after you've balanced out your resume with work experience, and maybe at a lower rank than you expect (you said you've been looking for work with your masters) I still believe that people expect one to "pay their dues" and work up through the ranks- even if you can skip over a few here or there- but getting "in" the game instead of just studying it is my suggestion.

Get an internship or entry level in the best company you can land- kick ass and make an impression.

Good luck, and I wish you well. No doubt once you put your mind to it you'll do great!

 

The doctorate would make you less employable as you will be a 25 year old with lots of education and no work experience.
The doctorate at your age would only work if you want to go into academics, if this is the case, you better do one full time at a traditional school.
The programs you mention are normally followed by established professionals looking just for an extra credential for promotions or people interested in becoming adjuncts.

If your goal is to become employed, your best call is to join a professional program that has placement services, industry practicums, etc. Most of the online schools do not have the industry relations for people looking for a first job as their market are established professional and not people looking to break into a particular industry.

 

Thanks for the replies and advice so far. I should have mentioned that I have been looking for work for over the last year since the completion of my bachelors degree. Fortunately enough, I do have 5 years of management experience. My grandparents own a small contracting company, well we just closed the doors on the 31st a couple days ago. Out of high school they hired me on part time (30-35 hrs/week) to be the office manager and essentially run the company as they wanted to step back and enjoy retirement. However, I stopped drawing a salary back in November of 2011 (to help keep the company afloat, it was that bad being in the construction business). I was looking for work over the last year while still running the office part time.

Even with a few years of management experience, I still have not been able to even get my foot in the door at entry level jobs. I haven't been going after anything but entry level. I was hoping that an MBA would differentiate me enough to at least get some interviews for the entry level positions. My college employment office has been almost a dead end because the college is known for its nursing and physical therapy program, the business side is small and the jobs or internships are far and between.

I have the problem with my student loans becoming due since I am no longer enrolled in school. Financially, I can not meet these requirements anymore from stretching and making ends meet over the last year and a half, even going as far as moving back in with my parents in October of last year. Further, since my school did not require me to take the GMAT or GRE to get into the MBA program because I got above a 3.5 GPA in the undergrad program there, I have not taken either of the tests (hind sight is 20/20) and I know I should have while in the MBA program but I did not think I was going to start my doctorates for a couple years and would be able to find employment. Furthermore, most of the traditional programs all ready ended their application process for the Fall of 2013, and will not start taking applications for the Fall of 2014 until June-July area.

That does not work with me needing to forestall my student loans becoming due and having to make payments I now can't. I have to enroll in some type of program soon. Going after a bachelors in another field such as Chemistry/Engineering will take 2 years full time (I don't enjoy those jobs/programs) and when looking at it I'd rather have a DBA or PhD with the additional year or so on top than another bachelors.

Ahhh the problems of life for a young adult.

 

As other replies, you have rich in education, but lacking of professional experiences. There are my recommendations to you:

A. You must break into the industry by starting entry level or internship. Therefore, you can start building your professional experiences.

B. You should apply to full-time AACSB accredited Ph.D in Business Administration, these admissions require GMAT/GRE scores. So, you have to prepare for those. You'll get full-ride on the program plus yearly living stipends. However, you have to do research for the school and/or teaching classes.

The good thing about distance learning is flexible for busy working adult; however, the price tag is not cheap. You do not want to stack more into the student loans; especially, you will no longer receive subsidized loan anymore.

Good luck with your decision.

 

Thank you for all the replies so far. I do have a lot to think about on the subject still.

 

I do have a lot to think about on the subject still. I think I should have been more clear in my initial response. I know I was somewhat vague about experience and such and to that I apologize. I have 5 years of experience as an Office Manager for a small contracting company. My grandparents have owned a small 12 employee contracting company for the last 30 years, and after I graduated high school they had me take over the office (30-35 hours a week) as they wanted to step back and enjoy their golden years. However, we just shut the doors on the 31st after struggling to stay afloat. I have been looking for steady work since November of 2011 when I finished my bachelors degree, as in October of 2011 I stopped drawing a salary to try and keep the company afloat but alas this economy does not behoove a small construction company. Furthermore, I have sold my condo at a loss and moved back in with my parents at the end of 2011. I was hoping that have an MBA would help to differentiate me from others when applying for entry level positions or low level supervisor jobs. So far it hasn't. Financially, I can not afford to get an unpaid internship and not be in school.

One of the biggest problems is that my student loans are coming due and I can not financially afford to pay them right now, nor can I afford to ruin my credit at 22. Further, my school did not require me to take the GMAT or GRE to get into the MBA program because I finished my undergrad there with over a 3.5 where they wave that requirement. Hindsight is 20/20 and I should have taken the tests anyways, but I was not expecting to enter into a doctoral program right away. On top of that the deadlines for most traditional programs have passed for Fall of 2013, and they will not be taking applications for the 2014 program until sometime in June-July. This does not help stop my student loans from coming due and I must enroll in some kind of program or degree. My family has recommended that I pursue a bachelors in chemistry or engineering, both of which would take me 2-2.5 years to complete and I would rather not go that route as I would not enjoy those fields and I would rather have a DBA or PhD for the extra year or so.

Ahh the struggles of a young adult. :sad:

 

Is there anyone that is in the Indiana Tech program or Walden program here? Thank you for all the replies so far. I do have a lot to think about on the subject still. I think I should have been more clear in my initial response. I know I was someonewhat vague about experience and such and to that I apologize. I have 5 years of experience as an Office Manager for a small contracting company. My grandparents have owned a small 12 employee contracting company for the last 30 years, and after I graduated high school they had me take over the office (30-35 hours a week) as they wanted to step back and enjoy their golden years. However, we just shut the doors on the 31st after struggling to stay afloat. I have been looking for steady work since November of 2011 when I finished my bachelors degree, as in October of 2011 I stopped drawing a salary to try and keep the company afloat but alas this economy does not behoove a small construction company. Furthermore, I have sold my condo at a loss and moved back in with my parents at the end of 2011. I was hoping that have an MBA would help to differentiate me from others when applying for entry level positions or low level supervisor jobs. So far it hasn't. Financially, I can not afford to get an unpaid internship and not be in school.

One of the biggest problems is that my student loans are coming due and I can not financially afford to pay them right now, nor can I afford to ruin my credit at 22. Further, my school did not require me to take the GMAT or GRE to get into the MBA program because I finished my undergrad there with over a 3.5 where they wave that requirement. Hindsight is 20/20 and I should have taken the tests anyways, but I was not expecting to enter into a doctoral program right away. On top of that the deadlines for most traditional programs have passed for Fall of 2013, and they will not be taking applications for the 2014 program until sometime in June-July. This does not help stop my student loans from coming due and I must enroll in some kind of program or degree. My family has recommended that I pursue a bachelors in chemistry or engineering, both of which would take me 2-2.5 years to complete and I would rather not go that route as I would not enjoy those fields and I would rather have a DBA or PhD for the extra year or so.

Ahh the struggles of a young adult.

 

My first thought was for you to find some sort of public service position, if you do not have privately financed student loans. for example, one of the Military branches would do nicely, and you would pick up some additional and valuable experience. There are many other alternatives as well:

What types of public service jobs will qualify a borrower for loan forgiveness under the PSLF Program?
You must be employed full time (in any position) by a public service organization, or must be serving in a full-time AmeriCorps or Peace
Corps position. Organizations that meet the deinition of “public service organization” for purposes of the PSLF Program are listed below.
A government organization (including a federal, state, local, or tribal organization, agency, or entity; a public child or
family service agency; or a tribal college or university);
A non-profit, tax-exempt organization under section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code (includes most not-for*
proit private schools, colleges, and universities);
A private, non-proit organization (that is not a labor union or a partisan political organization) that provides one or
more of the following public services:
Emergency management
Military service
Public safety
Law enforcement
Public interest law services
Early childhood education (including licensed or regulated health care, Head Start, and state-funded pre-
kindergarten)
Public service for individuals with disabilities and the elderly
Public health (including nurses, nurse practitioners, nurses in a clinical setting, and full-time professionals
engaged in health care practitioner occupations and health care support occupations)
Public education
Public library services
School library or other school-based services

http://studentaid.ed.gov/sites/default/files/public-service-loan-forgiveness.pdf

 

Just want to throw my two cents in here. I'm not sure where you are based, but have you tried temp/staffing agencies? There are a multitude of ones that solely focus on finance/accounting work and they could likely get you work to be able to service your student loan debt. I would advise against pursuing a PhD at this juncture, especially if it is solely to hold off your debt becoming due. You know, you can defer the loans based on financial hardship.

 

I figured it was to postpone your student loans. That said....

The title of manager isn't exactly as important as what you did. For instance, how many people reported to you? I'd consider running a front office as an entry level position. I've done that job. I get it, it's a one man show so you do "everything" which feels important, but it's not a job that one needs an education "in" to do. Now that you have an MBA, you need to kick up the responsibility. More employees and more oversight. Again, you need to get in somehow- even if that means the ground floor- you need a bigger company, not a mom and pop. In a word: internship. Apply at every fortune 500 company for an internship.

Enrolling in a distance doctorate program is going to add $50k on top of your debt, and imo you're no more employable. Student loans are NOT discharged in bankruptcy.

Also, fwiw, I wouldn't ell people that you managed a business that failed. Leave that off. Don't tell people you didn't draw a salary. Your grandparents retired. Period.

 

I would say LESS employable. A 25 year old with an online doctorate with little work experience makes you almost untouchable by most employers.

If you really want the doctorate, go to an AACSB accredited full time program that will pay you a salary as a graduate student. At least you won't end with debt and you can be employable as an academic after graduation.

 

I know you want to start a new program to avoid immediate repaying student loans while unemployed. The schools you have mentioned on the original post, I just afraid they will add more debt to your student loans without any better result. The only a distance learning institution that I would recommend for your situation is Liverpool University's Doctorate in Business Administration (DBA). The program is AACSB accredited and the UK authority. The University of South Alabama and Kennessaw State University's Executive DBA are way too expensive.

Have you thought about entering the Military Commissioning Officer route? Most of them start the career upon college graduation (age around 21, 22, 23). I have found some of the interesting discussion at the HES that might interest you.

 

Thanks for all the responses everyone! I know trying to find an internship would be a good route to getting an in into a good company, however, most internships are now non-paid and I can ill afford not having some kind of living expenses and no guarantee of being employed by the said company after the internship is over. I just do not see it as an option.

I have looked into the Liverpool University's DBA, however I'm fuzzy on the financial affordability of the program as it is based outside the U.S. and I have not researched on how the program would be paid for. With that being said, I did not know you can defer your loans due to financial hardship and I should look into that route more as I have both subsidized an unsubsidized student loans, luckily, only in the neighborhood of $25k but still the payments I could not afford.

I have been looking at going into the service as my family has a tradition of military service, currently I have four members of my family in with numerous others retired, including my great aunt and uncle who were both a Colonel and a Brigadier General in the Army and worked at the Pentagon in R&D. They all have suggested going in to further my education, help with my loans, and provide experience in both life and career. However, I am unsure of this route. It is another possibility to take into consideration.

 

The first thing that struck me is that you are making a bad assumption. Asking a question such as "What will HR professionals think..." suggests that there is some magical unified opinion on any of those schools or programs. Even if you're asking for a probability, there's no data anywhere that will tell you that HR people are more likely to approve of school A over school B (unless you're talking about Harvard or Stanford or one of the other small number of powerhouse schools.) You'll never have enough data to insure that the decision you make is foolproof. Also, and I'm sorry to be the downer here, doctoral programs are an incredible amount of work and we've heard countless stories of people who either could not or would not finish up. I would be more inclined to relocate to wherever in the world I had to go in order to get a decent job, get some more experience and then begin to move up the ladder in your chosen niche. In any case, good luck.

 

I would speak with a recruiter if I were you, just to find out what your options are. If you want a "different" kind of military, the Coast Guard may be the ticket for you. It has an interesting mission, very decent benefits and you would qualify for loan forgiveness as well. See UNITED STATES COAST GUARD: SERVING IN THE U.S. COAST GUARD They have positions in finance that will provide you the experience that you need, if you want to remain in business. I do not think that you would regret this. PS. I served in the Air Force, (and retired from the Reserves) but I have come to appreciate the other services as well.

 

I am not sure if you saw this buried in some of the other responses, but MOST full time PhD candidates are PAID positions!!! In other words, start applying like crazy right now, most applications are due this month for Fall entry.

You will get paid a salary to work for the school/ take classes...TEACH classes, do grunt work (research and other) and in 3 to 5+ years you will come out with a PhD in your area of expertise.

MOST of those programs have a 100% placement rate....but that is in a teaching track and I am not sure that was your focus. But certainly a good option / getting PAID to go to school!! (You have the GPA to prove you are capable)

GRE/GMAT is not always required, but heck, go take it, send in your applications regardless and on the GRE/GMAT section just tell them you are sitting on such and such date.

Military would be a great option as well...

Starting your own biz... if you are a finance guy, check out Edward Jones, they are always recruiting and might be interested in you. (They PAY you as you learn, take the various tests/exams and help you ramp up your biz.)

Insurance / Finance sounds like a natural track and MANY of the bigger firms have programs specifically for the young person, they pay you, not a lot buy a pay check, you study, pass the exams and start grunt work building up your own clientele.

The whole 5 years management thing generally does NOT impress anyone the moment they hear it was working in a family biz. I too have my "own" company where I am President, CEO, CFO, CTO, CIO, uh...CCO......Janitor, Tech Support, etc. So just understand the limits of that experience and how it is viewed by outsiders.

YES, you may have worked your butt off, BUT... there will be a perception... and five years of "Management" experience for a 22 year old is just going to come off oddly for those recruiters / HR / prospective employers.

Tone it down maybe, talk up the fact that THEY ran a biz successfully and you just hope to duplicate them...build THEM up and that you are a good worker and listener.