Unaccredited / State Approved!

I've had state approved degrees as part of my employment and educational package for more than a decade. These have been successfully used numerous times. I made my decision long ago to use an unaccredited school, am satisfied with the choice, and would make that same choice again. It is implied here on this forum that employment and education success are impossible with one of these degrees. If you've had success or failure with unaccredited / approved degrees, and would care to relate your experience, I would be interested to hear it. Has the experience of having one of these diplomas been positive or negative for you? My own experience has been positive.

 

James

You have either intentional, or perhaps unintentionally, misrepresented what has been said on this board. What has been said is that unaccredited schools have significant deficientcies and that the potential for difficulties is huge.

The one question that has been asked repeatedly that I don't ever recall being answered is why choose an unaccredited school over an accredited one? RA schools are available as cheap or cheaper than the unaccredited ones.

With that being said, let me state that several posters have succesfully used legitimate unaccredited degrees for employment and educational advances. Again the core of the question is why choose an unaccredited school OVER an accredited one.

 

Some people have termed degrees from unaccredited schools as "virtually useless." This is grossly incorrect, as James points out. There are many people successfully using their degrees from unaccredited schools. My research supports this, as does common sense. (There are many of these schools, some of which have issued tens of thousands of degrees over the years.) But why?

My research indicates that, in many cases, the acceptability of degrees from unaccredited schools is based on misperception and/or non-chalance on the part of the employer. While these dynamics work in favor of the degree-holder, they are also situations that are found universally, and can change dramatically. (Ask Laura Callahan and others.)

John Bear has for many years advised degree-seekers to be very sure their choice will meet their present and future needs. He's also cautioned that, for many people, a degree from an unaccredited school simply will not do this. We hear anecdotal evidence of individual satisfaction, but research (his with admissions officials, mine with employers, and mine again with graduates of accredited and unaccredited nontraditional schools) shows that in many situations, degrees from unaccredited schools will not help. Couple that with the inferior educational processes of many unaccredited schools and you have a recipe for an expensive mistake. Those mistakes can be largely mitigated by sticking with properly recognized schools. That means accreditation.

Finally, as Dave Hayden points out, the expenses involved are not an excuse. Cheaper, accredited options--especially at the bachelor's level--are available. Not to mention the financial aid programs in place. As for availability, there is no excuse anymore; one can earn degrees from accredited schools by almost any learning paradigm imaginable--and certainly by any offered by unaccredited schools. Distance learning is no longer "alternative" or "non-traditional." And unaccredited schools are no longer necessary options. That's why the good ones, like Walden, Union, Argosy, etc., became accredited.

 

James wrote:

> I made my decision long ago to use an unaccredited school,
> am satisfied with the choice, and would make that same choice
> again.

James, in one earlier thread, you wrote: "My first Diploma was around 1973 from a real degree mill called Lane College. It was really bad. From there I went to accredited and unaccredited courses from the University of Tennessee, To Chadwick, International Correspondence School, North American Correspondence School, National Technical School, American School, Residence classes at Northeast Community College, Several Bible Schools- from bad to better. I'm sure there are more correspondence courses I've taken, but you get the idea. [...] I've had a friend look at my diploma on the wall and ask where the school is. He said he'd never heard of it. I explained about distance education and at the end he said he'd heard of such things. He also added that he would never put one of those things on a wall. I had a job interview many years ago in which the man really went after me . He really let me know in uncertain terms what he thought of correspondence diplomas."

Now, what exactly is the choice that you're "satisfied with"?

 

Take a deep breath Mark, you'll start hyperventilating. My choices are uniquely my own, and are not meant to satisfy another, but only myself. This thread is to learn if others like myself have found employment or education success with approved schools as part of their lives. If others have found failure or success, so be it, but I would hear it directly from them.

Now back to me. I reserve the right to my own beliefs and choices. My successes are my own, as are my failures. What I enjoy and what I do is for me to decide. I don't have to justify myself to anyone. I hope others will respond to this thread with information about their own unaccredited degrees, success / failure, tell what you know or think you know Come on in the water. The shark tank ain't that bad. It's nice and warm.

 

Here is what Rich Douglas had to say about James's alma mater:

 

I missed responding to the jibs about the wall and the HR man attack. The diplomas on the wall that got deprecated were Chadwick University/ State Approved, ICS/ DETC, and North American Correspondence Schools /DETC. He knew nothing about the schools but was not in love with correspondence work in general.

The HR man that burned me at the stake was incensed that I put on my resume a three course, diploma- not degree, business diploma from the University of Tennessee/ RA. He was a B & M man from U.T. and resented that I would claim a correspondence diploma as being real, and he told me in no uncertain terms his feelings about correspondence work.

Yes, I'm still satisfied with my various distance learning projects over the years, if you are not, so be it, Mark. I'm the one they have to please.

 

If anyone wishes to see what Chadwick requires:
www.chadwick.edu/catalog/contents.html

Chadwick is the sister school to American College of Computer & Information Sciences, an accredited school. They were started by the same man and both were hard at work to become accredited. Chadwick was one step back of ACCIS when it became accredited. Thus Chadwick will die, no reason to keep two schools so similar. No, Chadwick didn't become accredited, but it was only a step behind ACCIS, and had become upper level among approved schools.

 

Chadwick operated for years without even a license from the notoriously lax state of Alabama. IIRC, they were not permitted to enroll Alabama residents, but that was later resolved.

While ACCIS became accredited by the DETC, I don't think Chadwick ever applied.

Chadwick might disappear, especially if ACCIS offers all of its degree programs. But it might not; the market they serve (I'll let others define and malign that) might be to lucrative to abandon. It doesn't look like DETC minds the current situation.

What is meant by being "only a step behind ACCIS"?

What is meant to "become upper level among approved schools"?

Who measures, or even states, these things? Or is that just "bias"?

 

Rich Douglas wrote:

> While ACCIS became accredited by the DETC, I don't think
> Chadwick ever applied.

John Bear reported here that when he visited DETC circa 1996, "there were about 30 book cartons that had been sent from Chadwick to DETC piled in the hallway."

 

The question is still on the table. What is it about unaccredited schools that are so great? Why are they so attractive? Why do some people find it necessary to defend them so vigorously?

Easy degrees, less work?
Cheap degrees, less money?
The danger and excitment of being exposed?
Cater to the rebel mentality?
It's fun to trick people?
Has a personal need for approval for their past decision?

Listen James, I'll assume that it's the last one. How about this?

James, you have my personal approval to your past decisions to go with unaccredited degrees. I'm pleased that you feel it has worked out great in the past for you and I sincerely hope that there's no time bomb explosions in your future. Please rest assured that many people put in your place would have made the same decisions and in the future many people will make decisions similar to the ones that you have made.

P.S. I wanted to say that I hope that the state that you're living in doesn't outlaw the use of unaccredited degrees (ala NJ, Oregon, Florida, and ND) but I couldn't because that would be a lie. I'm sorry about that.

 

John Bear has described seeing Chadwick material at the DETC office, and I've seen other reports of their efforts. Chadwick and ACCIS both were attempting DETC accreditation. Upper means, higher in place, higher in rank, above the norm. I state these things from direct experience. I did the course you didn't.

 

Rich,

I am curious to know about the states that have restrictions on the use of unaccredited degrees in terms of how the restrictions/languages were worded. Do you or anyone have the web links to these states's appropriate education departments that describes these prohibitions or restrictions? Thank you.

 

Bill,
I'm glad that you offer approval of my approved degree. Now it's double approved I'm not seeking approval from any person/persons, just responding to comments. If it's negative to explain something people ask me about on this forum, then I guess it's negative. I know of no one claiming any approved school to be great, just acceptable.

 

Sorry, but I don't really say much when this subject comes up--I don't know how New Jersey, for example, words it. The Oregon ODA has language available here: http://www.osac.state.or.us/oda/

There are links to the various pages, regulations, etc.

As for other states (New Jersey? Texas?), I'll have to leave it to other interested parties.

 

Understanding that DETC doesn't comment about the schools it rejects (or even announces the rejections), do we know if Chadwick was rejected, or if they pulled their application?

 

I think that a lot depends on what kind of courses one takes and on how one intends to use them.

You describe your own educational experience in this way:

My first Diploma was around 1973 from a real degree mill called Lane College. It was really bad. From there I went to accredited and unaccredited courses from the University of Tennessee, To Chadwick, International Correspondence School, North American Correspondence School, National Technical School, American School, Residence classes at Northeast Community College, Several Bible Schools- from bad to better. I'm sure there are more correspondence courses I've taken, but you get the idea.

It sounds to me like most of this was vocational education of some sort, or perhaps Bible college. Personally, I think that non-accredited schools can have value in teaching useful skills or in allowing people to further their personal interests. There are thousands of schools out there that teach those kind of things, some of them DL. I have no real argument against them. (I am concerned about possible abuses by substandard and fly-by-night vocational schools though. So even at this level where accreditation is less important, care still needs to be taken.)

But more problems arise when we move to academic degree programs, particularly those at the bachelors level and above. At this level accreditation is generally expected. When we reach the level of academic and professional certification, accreditation is often critical.

I've argued that unusually strong non-accredited university-level schools can work in special situations. But I don't think that Degreeinfo would be acting responsibly if it suggested that we can generalize from success in special situations to endorsing all non-accredited schools in all situations. That's simply dangerous.

There are real disadvantages to non-accredited schools that have to be considered very carefully by anyone thinking of enrolling in one of them or of employing one of its graduates. These schools simply can't be recommended uncritically.

 

Oh, so it's your opinion that Chadwick is a cut above. You don't have independent information about that. But as someone who went to Chadwick, wouldn't you be biased?

Taking a course from Chadwick doesn't make one an expert. In fact, it indicates quite the oppposite.

Graduates from Chadwick were part of my survey of graduates of nontraditional master's programs. The ones that pursued Chadwick degrees for career purposes were much less satisfied with the results than those from accredited master's programs in the survey.

You may have taken the course, but I did the research. (It was included in my Union studies as a run-up to my dissertation topic.)

 

I believe that the Florida law was actually the first. It was declared unconstitutional and unenforcible by the Florida Supreme court. The wording of the law was vague and confusing when foreign degrees were considered. I think the main problem though was that court thought that it was unfair to deny all unaccredited degrees. There was no way to allow for a school like Bob Jones University.

The North Dakota law text can be found here.
http://www.degreeinfo.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8995

 

BillDayson wrote:

> It sounds to me like most of this was vocational education of
> some sort, or perhaps Bible college.

James has a BS and an MBA from Chadwick.