Pacific Western University - 2 -

Recently Dr. Gina asked a very simple, honest question about PWU and did anybody know about this school. There were many replies from people but not one had any dealings with this school but were quick to respond in a somewhat negitive way. Only one person replied who had some experience with PWU and gave some 7 year old information. I am posting a new thread on this because I felt the waters became a little muddy and felt a new post would fair better.
I have been dealing with this school for the past year or so and happy to report that it has been good. My intent is to prove that this school is very credible, answer any questions, and explain exactly what work was done to obtain the degree. Yes, real work! A 200 page portfolio(s) a 16 page qualifying exam, a 101 page dissertation, and more. I am not claiming it to be eqivenent to RA, nor am I recommending it for just anyone but it has a purpose and a place for mature adults with extensive work experience. If you truley want to learn about this school then pull up their web sight, both of them, bone up on it, (also click gallery that shows some of the staff) and I be happy to answer any question that I possibly can. Thank you,
PWU-CA.EDU or PWU-HI.EDU

Herb

 

Welcome to DegreeInfo! It is kind of you to offer to answer questions. I have a few.

1. Did you graduate from the Hawaii or California version of the school?

2. In what field is your PhD?

3. If the degree is not equivalent to a regionally accredited degree, to what is it equivalent (or is it unique)?

4. What, exactly, is the purpose and place of the degree (for mature adults with extensive work experience)?

5. Are you in any way (aside from being a satisfied student) affiliated with PWU (Hawaii or California)?

6. Did you really complete your doctoral studies in about a year?

 

Good luck! If you try to explain anything here by some you will considered an apologist. I know a graduate of PWU, and he seems to think it is a university, and not a mill. I do not know, but welcome your input.

Sincerely,

Scott

 

Herb: Resorting to caricature won't help your case. I have had dealings, as you call it, with PWU. The PW personnel were cordial and helpful. I do not consider it a mill. Had I chosen it, I, too, would have done "real work." That, however, would have been an inferior choice of a substandard institution.

The playing off of two state jurisdictions against one another is most untoward and the school's reputation is not very good (compared to some other CA-approved institutions, let alone accredited schools). There is not a sufficiently wide range of faculty to support an ostensibly all-discipline university. The school rides upon the few programs which are CA-approved, while running most stuff through Hawai'i, a minimal-oversight state.

Certainly, had I chosen PW, I would have had to do less "extraneous" work than I will have to do at the institution I chose. That "extraneous" work is part of what gives the degree process its pedagogical integrity, and calling it a distraction, as I was tempted to do, would have been (in my case) nothing but a verbal cover for laziness.

Withal, I stand by my criticisms of PW; it is substandard, in some ways less than forthright, and burdened with a less-than-wonderful reputation. If I were hiring you, and you said you got your degree from PW, and you verified the extent and quality of the work you did, my criticisms of the institution would not prevent me from hiring you, calling you magister or doctor, etc., etc. I stress that that would be a virtually unavailable response in the academic world, at least in the US, and an unreliably available response from HR personnel (based on Dr Douglas' research, inter alia).

 

Pacific Western University -2-

GUS
I did the Hawaian school that some don't like, but PWU is playing by all the rules. For those who don't know, when Hawaii tuffened the rules in 1995 some schools left, other complied. It took some hand slapping to get everyone on track but PWU playes by all the rules today.
2. My degree is in Applied Arts/ Music History. This is my field.
3. I do concider it near some RA instututions but I not going to
waist time convencing DegreeInfo sharks that it is, I just want
convence them it is credible institution.
4. I did this for my own personal satisfaction and to validate a lot
loose ends credits. I know this is a classic answer but it is a real
anwer. As a matter of fact...all my degrees are personal satisfaction because I do not use them for my profession but for my enlightenment. Most people do not know I have any degree or care. All my other degree are RA brick and morter. I did this one for the experience. (5).I have no connection other than student/alumni. I am not a salesman for PWU. (6) I did it in one year but things must be concidered. It has been 10 years since my MS-Music Ed. My portfolio was mostly written before I started, I just had to sort it out for PWU. I have been working on two dissertation ideas and filing notes for ten years. I gave them the smaller one and will save the 300 page dissertation idea for a RA/BM school should I go back again. A serious posibility.

 

Dr Herb: If you wish to make a case for the usefulness and efficacy of a doctorate from PW, you might wish to review the English of your posts and check for goofs. We all make typos and occasional grammatical errors (more, perhaps, if English is a second or third language for us), but posts riddled with them may undermine your arguments--worthwhile though your arguments may be.

 

Re: Pacific Western University -2-

So far, nothing you have stated has done anything to convince me, quite the contrary. Moreover, I do not believe that referring to the members of this forum as sharks (where have we heard that term before?) will assist you in your efforts.

First you state that a PWU degree is not equivalent to RA. Then you claim that it is "near" RA. All I asked was, if it is not equivalent to RA, to what is it equivalent? Credibility is another matter altogether. For example, are the degrees issued from the Hawaii PWU equivalent to the degrees issued from the California PWU, or are they instead equivalent to unaccredited degrees from other states such as Wyoming?

 

Pacific Western University -2-

PLScot,
Thank you for the welcome. I do feel that I may have jumped into a shark tank but I may be tuffer than one might think.

Uncle Janko,
Yes the personell were very cordial and helpfull all through the program. As far as less "extraneous" work, I agree. It is easy to write and explain ones own profession when you are validating your own experiences. This is not learning new material but the gathering of loose ends, for me anyway.

I do appreciate your openess to higher me had I put this on an application. If I had done so, I would certianlly explain the nature of the degree and school. That the honest and only way. However on a personal note, I had not filled out an application since 19.. and the only school of interest was the trade school, factory traning, and my membership in a profesional organization.

Oh...got my 's' button working.

 

Dr Herb: Thanks for the reply. See, it's possible to discuss things with you--unlike with the children's chorus that popularized the term "shark". Best wishes, Janko

 

I believe that a search in Google will find a dozen or two hits where the Hawaiian branch of PWU is referred to as a degree mill or a diploma mill. Nothing has been said here that indicates these statements were incorrect?

 

Pacific Western University -2-

Uncle Janko,
Yes, I will be carefull. I am a bit nervous and seem to be typing in a hurry.

Gus.
You are right. The term 'shark has been used so many times here that I never gave it a second thought. My apolgies to you and everyone.

RA schools vary from one to the other as far as diffuculty and I and not one to judge if this school meets some RA
standards or not. Again, I am trying to tell people this is a credible insitution should they want to consider an unacreddited degree.

 

Re: Pacific Western University -2-

Very well, let's forget about equivalency (although it is relevant) for the moment and consider credibility. I have several reservations concerning PWU, and the Hawaii version in particular. Beyond you merely saying so, why should I consider them a credible institution? And what, precisely, to you mean by “credible?”

 

Pacific Western University -2-

Bill,
I have done the Google search and I see what you mean. My comment is that any unaccredited degree in the academic field is subject to this especially when one considers who is doing what with the degree. When one uses a degree from...lets say... Hamilton University and it is used to obtain a high ranking position and it is brought out to the news reading public, then that brings to light all unacredited DL degrees, good or bad, and people love to read about it. Makes a good news story.

I certianly do not place PWU in the same catagory as Hamilton by any means but maybe the newspapers would. I believe the modern PWU is doing a good job today...it plays by all the rules and more. I mean think about it, the school has been around for 27 or 28 years. Maybe some day it will become DETC??? Who knows.

I hope my typing is getting better!

Herb

 

Credibility

Gus,
A credible institution is one who is upfront and honest in their presentation/ representation of their school, its programs and what you can do with the degree. Here is what PWU says.
"The university is oriented to those individuals not seeking licenses or credentials requiring accredited degrees. Our programs are not designed to meet any established requirements by private or professional associations. If a license or a credential is desired, a check should be made of state, federal, association, and credential requirements before applying." It also states it is NOT accredited.
This is in the catalog.
When you are accepted in the program you get this in a letter or contract form. I will read a little of the more important parts.
"I understand that the university is not able to function an an employment agency..."
"I am aware the University may grant academic degrees but no implication that it is accredited..."
"I have read and understood the catalog..."
"Pacific Western is not accredited by any agency regognized by the United State secretary of Education..."

There is more but I believe this is enough to point out by what I mean as a credible 'up front' school.
Thanks

 

Re: Pacific Western University -2-

The "rules" in Hawaii are extremely simple. It seems to cover just the obviously fraudulent practices that are frequently engaged in by degree mills. For example the practice currently hard pushed by K-W which is claiming academic approval from Wyoming. This type of deception is now illegal in Hawaii. Another common deception that's now illegal in Hawaii is claiming bogus accreditation. PWU may no longer do these things but they apprently used to do at least one of the now illegal activities because one of the links that I pulled up on PWU was a statement that they were being sued by the state for just such a practice.

Being around for 27 or 28 years does not guarantee much. It is a good thing but Sussex College of Technology has been around for longer and they have never tried very hard to hide the fact that they were a degree mill.

 

Re: Credibility

Well, that’s a very narrow (dictionary) definition of credibility. If all an institution has to do to be credible is to be truthful and believable, then the degree mills that are honest about being a mill, tell you that no work is required for the degree, and tell you that the degree can be used to deceive others (and there are more than a few doing exactly that), fit the definition.

So I guess credibility is one thing and legitimacy is another. According to the statements you posted, PWU seems to be going out of their way to say that its degrees should not be mistaken for legitimate ones. Since they are a credible institution, I am inclined to believe them.

 

PWU

Bill Huffman,
Now darn it... this is exactly what I was talking about earlier. It is true what you say but that's old news. My 12 yr old son came in the house one day with muddy shoes after he was told not to go near the pond. I barked at him and we cleaned off the mud. That was ten years ago! I l don't yell at him about that when he comes in the house today. Dr. --- sold a L.I.A.I.R degree to some guy in 1985 or so for $25.00 It was a joke that I bet he wishes he hadn't done. We all make decisions that might seem right at a point in time but sometimes later we wished we didn't.
It's time to move on and view this shool for what it is now.

If we do not do this we could be grumpy old men with long beards setting on a wooden porch thumping our canes worring about who did what in the Civil War.

I 'm somewhat of a joker...I aplogize.

Herb

 

I honestly cannot give you an opinion regarding PWU. I looked at their web site and reviewed some literature they sent me a couple of years ago (this was before I knew about Regional Accreditation).
Of what I've seen so far, it looks like they may need DETC accreditation (RA would be better) in order for them to make the grade.
On the other hand, I have more respect for PWU than I do for schools like Almeda, SRU and a host of others that I've seen since joining this forum.
If PWU does become a candidate for accreditation (DETC or RA) then I would definitely consider taking DL courses with them.

 

Re: Re: Pacific Western University -2-

Gus - I have used the term a lot.

I tried to search the archives to see if I was the first to use the term but got only 5 recent hits.

 

Roysavia,
Thank you for your reply. I do agree tha PWU needs to go DETC but who knows if that will happen...not me. I suspect eventually they will. With CCU crossing over to DETC this could be a chance for PWU to pick up some doctorate canidates.

From what I have seen this school has always reshaped to comply with existing laws and changed when needed. I hope some day that need will be DETC.