Hypothetical Question Regarding CA State Approved Doctorates

Consider the following:

In a small town in northern California, just five mile from the CA/Oregon border, a psychologist is practicing her/his discipline. The psychologist has RA B & M degrees, a CCU Ph.D. in psychology, and is licensed by the state of CA.

An Oregon resident, living in a town ten miles from the Oregon/CA border (15 miles from the psychologist's office) is making regular visits to the psychologist. During the course of treatment, the psychologist sets up several sessions with the patient and her/his spouse at their home (unusual, I know). This would mean the psychologist is plying her/his trade within the sovereign state of Oregon.

How would such a case be treated?

1) Would it violate Oregon law?
2) Could the psychologist be prosecuted?
3) Could the patient be prosecuted?

 

1) It would seem so.
2) Yes, but unsuccessfully, IMHO.
3) Doubtful.

That's just my opinion; I could be wrong.

 

1) The only way I see that it would violate Oregon law is if while in Oregon he claimed his unrecognized (in Oregon) degree.
2) If he had say, a motor home, and his degree was hanging on the wall in the motor home when he visited Oregon then he could potentially be prosecuted.
3) I don't see what the patient could possibly be prosecuted for.

Of course, I'm not a lawyer so this is all just ramblings of a layman.

 

Re: Re: Hypothetical Question Regarding CA State Approved Doctorates

Thanks, Bill, for the midnight laugh. This opens up a whole set of possibilities doesn't it?

What if this guy had a personalized license tag which read "Dr. Jones?" He is driving through Oregon when a state trooper spots the tag, and thinking he is a "real" Ph.D., pulls him over just to ask for some advice. After pulling the guy over he finds out the doctorate is from CCU, he pulls out his ODA list of non-recognized schools, finds CCU on the list, and immediately hauls the guy off in the paddy wagon.

Attorneys would have a time with this, huh?

 

Could a California licensed clinical psychologist with an RA degree practice in Oregon without some kind of approval from Oregon?

I can imagine of all kinds of cases where two adjacent states have significantly different licensing regulations for the same profession, and where professionals from one state might want to expand their practice to the adjoining state.

I'm not sure how this works.

 

I don't know about psychology, but pharmacists would not be able to practice in a state in which they are not licensed. Pharmacists run into interesting situations when they are on a state border on other issues as well. In Ohio at one time, for instance, a state resident who went across the border to see a physician not licensed in the patient's home state and received a prescription was actually toting an illegal prescription if he or she brought it back to the home state for their pharmacist to dispense. This was changed - I would have to check the laws - so the pharmacist simply had to determine that the physician was properly licensed by the neighboring state and that the physician and patient had a viable health care relationship.

There are all sorts of surprising things associated with health care licensing. That is why the licensee must always keep abreast with his/her individual state's laws. Ohio, and other states, allow for this in requiring a minimum number of continuing education hours in jurisprudence applicable to state law, and licensing board rules.

 

Wonder if an Oregon National Guard Chaplin who has a doctorate from a school not accepted by ODA can in his Guard office hang that diploma where and while he tends to his religious duties.

 

I think the scenerio is interesting. But, instead of a shrink, make it a lawyer. Here's why:

Every state has provisions for the appearance of nonadmitted counsel on an occasional basis. It's called hac pro vice or something like that. No state court is likely to endanger its relationship with other state courts by discriminating on the basis of the lawyer's degree.

Or even better, suppose an Oregon resident went to CA and hired a California lawyer, who appeared for him in Oregon court as described above, then didn't pay his bill. The CA lawyer might choose to sue in Oregon state court. A defense to failure to pay one's lawyer is that the lawyer isn't a lawyer. Surely the lawyer's CA JD and law license are evidence of legitimacy!

Nosborne, JD

 

What if the California degree is utilized, in some fashion ("Here's my business card...") in an airplane flying over Oregon? On a cruise ship heading up the coast inside the 3-mile limit?

We used to be involved in a potentially complicated Oregon-California situation. Our sub-agent for the Heriot-Watt MBA, EUN, had their offices about 100 feet over the border in Oregon, but their mailbox, at the foot of their driveway, was in California, hence a California mailing address and an Oregon telephone number. Now, if we'd been representing a school on the Oregon list, what might have happened?

 

I noticed that my denomination's parochial-school teacher training college and its theological seminary, neither of which is accredited, are not on the very short Oregon list of exempt schools. Given our strenuous views on separation of church and state, I can't see us applying to be on such a list. What next? Midnight raids like in the very bad old days in Prussia? Gnesio-Lutherans singing "We Shall Overcome" (which, when Lutherans sing it, sounds suspiciously like "Roll Out the Barrel," but nevermind)? The March on Salem? (Wave to Bill, guys. No, it's NOT a "fellowship" issue.)

Yust wunnerd.

 

===

I shall defend the sovereignty of my state

 

All of these make for very interesting scenarios, however, if we are to believe the post in "Oregon again", either the law or the officials have no teeth. They seeem to not pursue known incedents. OH well, these are entertaining arguments anyway.

 

The Oregon Revised Statutes read:

348.594 Definition of "school" for ORS 348.594 to 348.615. As used in ORS 348.594 to 348.615:

(1) "School" includes a person, organization, school or institution of learning that confers or offers to confer an academic degree upon a person or to provide academic credit applicable to a degree.

(2) "School" does not include:

(a) An Oregon community college;

(b) A state institution of higher education within the Oregon University System;

(c) The Oregon Health and Science University; or

(d) A school that meets the criteria and procedures to obtain a religious exemption adopted by rule by the Oregon Student Assistance Commission and offers only degrees with approved titles in theology or religious occupations. [1997 c.652 §8; 1999 c.59 §93]

I would assume that ORS 348.594(2)(d) means that your schools have, or are eligible for, religious exemptions.

 

obecve: "All of these make for very interesting scenarios, however, if we are to believe the post in "Oregon again", either the law or the officials have no teeth.

John: The great value of the Oregon list is that it exists, in an easily publicly accessible way. And so there are, it seems safe to deduce, a good many people who never find this forum, who are searching for a school, and say, "Gee, if it's illegal in Oregon . . ."

And, I am told, there are people who would never themselves call a given school a diploma mill, but who are delighted to respond to people's questions by saying, "If you happen to live in Oregon, you'd be a criminal with this degree. What else do you need to know."

And the fact that the Oregon URL contains the phrase "diploma_mill" supports this argument.
(http://www.osac.state.or.us/oda/diploma_mill.html)

 

John, I agree with the value of the law and the concept that good information about the degree mills can be given on this forum (pertaining to the Oreogn law). My only trouble is that Oregon does not seem to actually take action, even when they are aware of situations in violation of the law.

 

My guesses:
1) Yes
2) Yes
3) No

BTW, it's possible that the answers to questions 1 and 2 would remain "Yes" even if the degree were RA and recognized by the state of Oregon IF the Psychologist were not licensed in the state of Oregon. For example, despite my RA Masters in Social Work and current Massachusetts license, I can not practice in the state of New Hampshire because I am not currently licensed by that state. I know I'm stating the obvious, but there's more to "license to practice" than where you went to school.
Jack