California Approved PhD/DBA?

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by Randell1234, Jan 31, 2003.

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  1. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator

    I know there are countless threads on the California approved schools vs. RA schools but what difference does it make at the PhD / DBA level if the person does not intend to use it to teach? If a masters is a terminal degree, is there a difference?
     
  2. Mike Albrecht

    Mike Albrecht New Member

    If the goal is to add the initials after your name and have your friends call you "doctor", then there is no difference (ignoring self respect:p ). But, if you plan to use the degree outside of California, be prepared to have problems.

    There are other uses besides academia, such as consulting, expert witness, counseling, and non-academia based research (NASA, FDA, etc.). In these cases a non-accredited degree (at any level) "could" cause probelms. In addition, some states have laws against using the title earned from a non-accredited degree program.

     
  3. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Re: Re: California Approved PhD/DBA?

    I'm not aware of any evidence that demonstrates a greater utility for degrees from California-Approved schools when used in California compared to when they're used outside the state. (Except for those cases where graduates of California-Approved schools sit for professional licensure.) I would be very interested in seeing that.

    There is good reason, however, to believe that degrees from state-approved, unaccredited schools perform well in the workplace. This holds true even after employers are explained the facts about accreditation, state-approval, etc.

    While it is true that there are a few states attempting to control the use of degrees from unaccredited schools, their aren't too many (any?) cases of people being prosecuted for it.

    Using a degree from an unaccredited school could bring some discredit to the user through bad publicity. Of course, that can also happen to holders of degrees from accredited, nontraditional schools. This is an obscure and complex field, easily misunderstood.

    Using a degree that is not earned (such as one from a diploma mill) could bring legal consequences to the user.
     
  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Re: Re: Re: California Approved PhD/DBA?

    Yes they do! The guy who flips burgers at Bob's Burger Barn, just a hop and a skip from my house, has a Ph.D. in food management from Madison University. He said he saw the advertisement in USA Today while on a fifteen minute lunch break, enrolled in the program, and within three months was a Ph.D. And he is the only burger flipper in the county with a Ph.D.
     
  5. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    Madison University is not a CA-approved school, whatever it is.
     
  6. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    I don't understand the question. What difference does a CA-approved Ph.D. make to what?

    Probably some people get degrees for ego-gratification. Whether a CA-approved degree would work as an ego-booster would depend on whether the person earning it was proud of it, I guess. That's an individual thing.

    Others get degrees for the educational experience. I think that some CA-approved schools are rather good, but most are probably substandard by RA standards. But some of the CA-approved schools offer unusual (peculiar) programs that may be hard to duplicate elsewhere. So if you are one of the special students that wants that kind of program, they may be among the best educational options out there, substandard or not. So again, it varies.

    Some people earn a degree to impress others. Here, I think that most CA-approved schools are kind of weak. Of course, it depends on who you are trying to impress. The general public is apt not to know the difference. But professional peers will, and may be underwhelmed. Of course, a particular school may have a good reputation among a particular group, so again it varies.

    Others earn a degree to get a job. Again it varies.

    In some fields degrees are simply commodities. An MBA is an MBA, in many cases. Here the question is whether the employer knows the difference, or even cares.

    But if advanced education is critical to hiring, then employers can be expected to be well informed and to pay attention. But if advanced education is not critical to hiring, then the employer won't be looking to hire a Ph.D. in the first place. The only exception to this rule that I can think of is perhaps some adjunct teaching jobs. But out in the real world, employers of Ph.D.s will care a great deal about where their applicant got his or her education.
     
  7. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator

    I am completing my MBA from CCU and enrolling in a MS-ITM program at Touro. After the MS-ITM is complete, I am thinking about getting my PhD from an RA school but is will cost more than I would like to spend.
    If a masters degree is considered a terminal degree, does anyone (employers outside the academic world) care where you got your PhD? Most upper management positions I have seen require a masters not a PhD. Would having a PhD from CCU tarnish the RA masters?
     
  8. oxpecker

    oxpecker New Member

    Absolutely, yes.

    As a hiring manager, I would throw out the resume of someone with a strong Master's who had proceeded to do a dubious PhD. Clear evidence of poor judgement, if nothing else! Unless the PhD was clearly non-professional (avocational, religious, etc.).
     
  9. Nosborne

    Nosborne New Member

    Call me starry eyed. Call me idealistic. The thing that keeps me from pursuing that NW Cal unaccredited JSD has NOTHING to do with the "utility" of the degree.

    When one earns a legitimate doctorate, two things should result:

    1) The student has demonstrated the ability to conduct independant research in his field in a way that will be taken SERIOUSLY by other scholars in his field. Indeed, for some period however brief he will be one of the nation's EXPERTS in that narrow, arcane field. His dissertation will be made available to other students and other scholars who may read it and learn something FROM it.

    2) The student is admitted into the community of scholars, people whose profession is the pursuit, increase, and TRANSMISSION of human knowledge through research, publication, and teaching.

    With the unaccredited degree, these things likely won't happen to any real extent.

    For me, an unaccredited JSD would be a mockery of that which I consider to be among the most noble of human activities. He who uses such a degree pretends to be something he is not.

    Nosborne, JD
     
  10. obecve

    obecve New Member

    Nosborne has clearly hit the nail on the head!
     
  11. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member


    If you are planning to work in the MIS field, I would rather spend my time in something useful as ORACLE, SAP or Microsoft certifications. The PhD, even from an accredited university, will get you nothing extra. PhD in MIS is mainly for academic purposes.
     
  12. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Yep!
     
  13. working1

    working1 New Member

    I am not defending diploma mills. I just want to talk briefly about the utility of diploma mill degrees.

    1st example: I know of 2 people who work for different multinational corporations. These individuals have MBAs from a certain diploma mill. Yet, these individuals have relatively important positions in these companies.

    2nd example: A person w/ a PhD from a diploma mill is a professor at an accredited college. Even the accredited college refers to the professor as "Dr."

    3rd example: In most states, CPA candidates need to have experience working in a CPA firm or the equivalent (as one of the requirements to become a CPA, in addition to passing the difficult exam.) Nevertheless, some candidates who work in corporate accounting submit letters to the respective CPA boards indicating that they have CPA-equivalent work experience (written by their boss, a CPA) even though the candidate does not have such experience.

    For examples #1 and #2, even if you those graduate degrees are not required for the job, why are these candidate getting hired?
    Should a person with a PhD from a diploma mill be entitled to be called "doctor?"


    For example #3, why is such a practice still continuing?

    Do so many people have the wool pulled over their eyes?

    Thank you for your attention.
     
  14. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    My research for my doctorate--which has yet to be presented and defended--indicates HR professionals don't know and don't care. A degree from a school--or even a degree mill--with a legitimate-sounding name is far more likely to be accepted by HR professionals for employment, tuition reimbursement, and/or promotion purposes than one from a legitimately accredited school with funny sounding name.

    Not good.:mad:
     
  15. Myoptimism

    Myoptimism New Member

    So Rich, would you go as far as stating that a degree from Thomas Edison State College or Charter Oak State College would receive a warmer welcome than a degree from Excelsior College?
    If so, that is indeed interesting. A little off tangent, what about the differences in degree title, could that come into play?

    Thanks,
    Tony
     
  16. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Hmmm. While I didn't measure the response to those schools specifically, it would be a reasonable assumption.

    Degree titles? Hard to say. My opinion is that it doesn't matter too much outside academia.

    That said, I've acted in quite the opposite way. I was enrolled as an MBA student with National University in the early 1980's. I was recalled to active duty--from the reserves--when I was accepted to Officer Training School. After commissioning, I was stationed in Sacramento, where I continued my MBA. I was given a short-notice assignment to San Antonio, and would not be able to complete the MBA. Because I'd transferred in the maximum number of credits when I enrolled at National, I would not be able to complete my courses at another school and transfer them back to National. (I'd completed 9 courses with National, and neeed another 4 to graduate.) I petitioned to the school for a waiver to the number of transfer credits, citing military duties. They countered with an offer to allow me to transfer one additional course and complete the M.A. in Business Administration. (At the time, the only difference between the M.A. and MBA was 3 courses.) Well, I balked at the offer--I didn't want an M.A. vs. the MBA. I got the support of the Sacramento campus' chancellor, and made a big pitch, citing my desire to earn the MBA instead of the M.A., my service to my country, and my desire to represent National as a graduate of the MBA program. They agreed, and waived the transfer credit limit. I graduated with an MBA in 1985.

    The specific degree mattered to me then. I don't think, in retrospect, that it has mattered all that much over time.

    I'm taking a Ph.D. from UIU (I expect to graduate in May of this year). While I appreciate the perception of the Ph.D. as a superior doctorate--held by some--that doesn't matter too much to me. If what I did resulted in some other form of doctorate, that would have been okay with me. In fact, when I pursue my next doctorate, it will be anything but a Ph.D.
     
  17. Nosborne

    Nosborne New Member

    Rich Douglas,

    By "diploma mill", do you mean "diploma mill" or "unaccredited school"?

    Or do you draw the distinction in your research?

    Nosborne, JD
     
  18. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    I did, and to finer levels than just those two.
     

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