All state-approved degrees are legal and legitimate

All state-approved degrees are equally legal and legitimate as accredited degrees.

In the US,each state has its own school licensing laws and regulations and there is at least one agency for higher education in each state that oversees higher education.In the state of California,all postsecondary educational institutions must be approved by the Bureau for Private Postsecondary & Vocational Education(BPPVE) to operate and award degrees.Even regionally accredited(RA) public or private postsecondary educational institutions incorporated in another state must go through the same approval process as any new school before they can issue their degrees.You can go to BPPVE web page www.bppve.ca.gov/reform_act/act29508.htm on Legislation/ Regulations,and see Article1 (94705) and Article 8(94900, 94901,and 94905).

This means that approval is the state's way of validating your degrees.By approval,the Bureau has validated your degrees to be legal, legitimate,and of quality and recognized by them.There is no law or regulation that categorizes schools and the degrees they award(i.e.,e.g.RA degrees are category A:the highest standard,DETC accredited degrees are category B:acceptable standard or state-approved degrees are category C:below standard,etc).Accreditation is an entirely voluntary process,and the only reason to go for accreditation is for Federal Government educational funds and not to further upgrade (i.e.go from below standard to acceptable standard or the highest standard) the degrees you award.There are many state-approved schools(and the number is increaing) that have been running for more than 20 years and not gone for accreditation And if you are doing a very good business as a state-approved school awarding recognized,legal, and legitimate degrees,why go for accreditation and waste a lot of money in the process which you can invest in the further development of your own school.All these concrete facts show that accreditation is not the only seal of recognition and validity of a degree but state-approval is too,otherwise the state agency BPPVE's seal of approval would be worthless.And who would apply for a worthless approval and award worthless degrees.

In conclusion,state-approved degrees are legal and legitimate and in no way substandard or inferior than RA degrees.Even the US Supreme Court would not deny this truth.

Mr.Yakthumba

 

I needed a smile!

 

Thanks, Mr. Yakthumba! I haven't had a laugh like that in a very long time!

The least jaded among us will probably try to refute you. That's one thing you can count on in this forum. I won't bother. But there's one thing you ought to remember: both accreditation and state agencies are impartial entities certifying the quality and value of the college's programs. State law notwithstanding, that "certification" is only worth as much as 1) the earned reputation and 2) the integrity of the accreditor or state agency.

 

Just saying a thing is legal and legitimate doesn't make it so even if the legislature, the courts or some lawyers are doing the saying. I have reservations about Oregon and Florida but I also have reservations about CCU.

Nosborne, JD

 

"Mr. Yakthumba?"

Funny post. The very first post from a guy who provides no information, purports to live in Nepal, and just signed onto the board.

Obviously, this was written by a shill for a degree mill. He's probably going to quote himself elsewhere, saying, "According to a post on degreeinfo.com . . ."

No, this post needs no refutation. Anyone who has read about so-called state approvals already knows that "Mr. Yakthumba's" head is obviously stuck up the place where the sun doesn't shine.

 

Yakthumba is a common Nepalese surname.

 

Perhaps he is serious....

I just did a search for "Yakthumba." The first site listed is for a "Nepal Schools" web site. It lists a Mr. Yakthumba as the principal of a "Higher Secondary School."

Gyanodaya Bal Batika Higher Secondary School

I'm not sure what to make of this tidbit. It's pretty bizarre either way...

 

The DIA is at work!!!!!!!!!!

The DegreeInfo Intelligence Agency is at work, and if I might add, doing a fairly efficient job:

11:21 AM, Mr. Yakthumba posts in regard to state-approved schools, calling them equivalent to regional accreditation.

12:03 PM, Dave Hayden responds with laughter.

12:24 PM, Ohnalee responds with heavy laughter.

12:39 PM, Nosborne and the legal team move in for a swift definition of legitimacy.

1:41 PM, Levicoff pulls the truck over, accesses the Internet, and posts that Mr. Yakthumba is a degree mill shill.

2:03 PM, Janko illuminates the group as to the ethnicity of the name Yakthumba.

2:09 PM, Within six minutes Jeff Hampton has sought, located and determined that Mr. Yakthumba is affilliated with a certain Nepalese school.

Is this an efficient crew or what? The DIA rules!!!!!!!!!!

 

An excellent and amusing summary of the transaction Mr. Morris.

 

Mr. Yakthumba, you are either totally incompetent in the area that you wrote about or worse. If you would be so kind as to provide a source for the false information that you've posted perhaps some assistance can be provided if it's the former case. If it's the later case then I expect that you will choose to slink away without so much as another word.

 

Yakthumba

Many states licence universities like they might licence a grocery store. Pay a fee, get a licence. Actually a grocery store would probably have an inspection by the health department whereas nobody would visit the school.

Somes states are extremely strict, allowing nothing but accredited schools. Some states such as California provide a degree of oversight while others like Wyoming licence anything.

Accreditation by an accreditor recognized by the US Department of Education or the private organization CHEA is assurance that a school meets minimal standards.

State licensed but unaccredited schools are certainly legal but no generalization can be made as to their quality. Legitimate accreditation means schools have an acceptable quality, although that too may vary.

The reaction you got here shows that the regulars have heard it all before and aren't impressed.

 

Don't confuse 'legality' with 'legitimacy'. They are two different things.

'Legality' refers to legal permission to operate as an educational institution. 'Legitimacy' refers to the quality and wider recognition of that education.

Once again, you are confusing too very different things: The nature and purpose of accrediting associations on one hand, and their recognition by the US Department of Education on the other.

Accreditors are private bodies, created by and composed of the educational and professional communities themselves. They are created for the express purpose of maintaining academic standards. This has nothing to do with educational funds or with the government.

The US Department of Education recognizes many of these accreditors in order to ensure that federal educational funds only go to legitimate institutions.

This kind of contradicts your argument, doesn't it? If schools opt for state approval in order to avoid the cost and effort involved in meeting accreditation standards, then doesn't that fact suggest that state approval standards are easier and less costly to meet?

The reason that private California schools that are not accredited by WASC apply for state approval is because it is illegal for them to operate in that state without approval.

But you never demonstrated the truth of that conclusion, did you? You just kind of snuck in the premise that the states enforce the same academic standards as the accreditors, which is a very doubtful proposition.

 

C'monC'monC'MON!!!
You all are being WAY too harsh with the Yak-Man.
I mean, isn't he just a guy trying to bring higher education to the Nepalese masses?
I mean, it's not like he has any personal stake in this matter, right?
Jack

 

Re: Yakthumba

Dennis, of course I absolutely agree with your post's intent, information, and general conclusion. I would like to make minor point of clarification though.

While the unaccredited school may be legal, it does NOT mean that one can count on the diploma being of any value or even legal. There are states and countries that have laws or policies that make the use of these degrees illegal. This fact alone flies in the face of Mr. Yakthumba's false assertions.

 

We should ask Rich Douglas for the advantages and disadvantages.

Tony

P.S. For those in the know, state approved and accredited schools for the most part certainly aren't comparable. But who knows?

 

But we should ask the old Rich Douglas, not the new kinder, gentler version.

 

Guys,thanks for your incredible responses! but it's obvious that you guys don't accept the facts even when it's right in front of you.I only go by the facts and figures.Didn't I tell you guys to look up the CA state's agency BPPVE's web page www.bppve.ca.gov on Legislation/Regulations Articles 1 and 8.Please read those articles very carefully and then tell me whether the CA state-approved degrees are not legal and legitimate.Otherwise the CA state Governor and the legislature must be wasting a lot of the public's tax money by making laws and regulations that are not accepted to be true by their own citizens.Ironic,isn't it?The law says you will get a death penalty if you are found guilty of murder and you say I will not accept this law even though the legislature(your very own representative for whom you have voted for and elected him) have made it a law?Anarchism or Democracy?

I have the greatest respect for your country's constitution, legal system,and democratic governance.Many countries have accepted,believed,and looked up to your constitution as an exemplary model when making their own constitutions.And your country has given you the greatest gift of all:democracy,the same democracy we in the rest of the world are still fighting for.By that same democracy each state in the US have their own jurisdiction and are independent to make and implement their own laws and regulations on commerce,education, health,welfare systems,etc.,for the good of their citizens.And it is always the state's legislative intent to protect the rights and freedom of its citizens.This is exactly what the CA state legislative intent is:to provide legal and legitimate state-approved degrees and not fraud ones.(Please read Article 1-General Provisions,section 94705 Legislative Intent and its sub-sections on BPPVE web page.)

How can you compare the state agency responsible for regulating higher education institutions to grocery stores?If you can buy a state-approval license as easy as buying grocery, then surely you can also buy accreditation just as easily.The review and inspection team from the BPPVE visit all approved institutions every three years to check up on them whereas the accrediting agency's team visit the accredited institutions in five to ten years.Who is lax?And who are some of the members of the accrediting agencies?Not the accredited schools themselves,I presume? Oh! Sounds like an "exclusive club"? When once there was a lot of criticism from the public of the deteriorated standard of education in RA institutions,the US Dept.of Education thought of revoking their recognition of RA agencies.The RA agencies banded together with some other agency to lobby against the Dept.for their survival even though they knew but never accepted that they were incompetent and had lost their credibility.Even their own member institutions doubted their credibility(but can you doubt the credibility of state agency,the BPPVE?) and thought of not wanting to be accredited.Amazing,isn't it? The six RA agencies and the DETC are equally recognized by the US Dept.of Education and yet the DETC degrees are not readily accepted(less than 10%) by the RA institutions.Are we playing a game of Monopoly?

I again reiterate there are no laws or regulations that categorize the schools.And unless the schools are formally and legally categorized,it would not be legally acceptable to say that their degrees differ in quality and utility.Can anybody provide me any legal literature on the categorization of US institutions where it says that RA institutions are formally categorized as awarding the highest quality degrees,DETC accredited institutions are categorized as awarding acceptable quality degrees,and state-approved institutions are categorized as awarding substandard degrees:that are never acceptable to any RA institutions and employers?

Yours truly,
Mr.Yakthumba(Kirat)
Yakthumbas are one of the major clans within the Kirat community who once ruled Nepal.

 

Mr Yakathumba:

You would make a great conman! Oh, wait, you already seem to be one! Stating untrue ideas in a convincing way does not make them true. Good luck, although I hope not too many people are taken in by your nonsense.

 

Yakthumba equates California state approval with accreditation. This isn't so. There are many situations where a state-approved degree will not suffice, requiring an accredited degree. The reverse is never true.

Yakthumba's metric regarding acceptance of degrees from DETC-accredited schools (10%) is incorrect. It is higher.

The BPPVE controls only private schools. It does not, IIRC, evaluate accredited schools. It approves them based upon their accredited status.

Yakthumba writes:

And unless the schools are formally and legally categorized,it would not be legally acceptable to say that their degrees differ in quality and utility.

But it happens all the time. There are many situations where unaccredited degrees are not acceptable, and this discrimination is perfectly legal. My favorite is California, where a degree from a state-approved school like CCU is not acceptable by a state-run school like UCLA. Perhaps the state should sue itself.

Yakthumba further writes:

Can anybody provide me any legal literature on the categorization of US institutions where it says that RA institutions are formally categorized as awarding the highest quality degrees,DETC accredited institutions are categorized as awarding acceptable quality degrees,and state-approved institutions are categorized as awarding substandard degrees:that are never acceptable to any RA institutions and employers?

Yakthumba conveniently employs absolutes, allowing the exception to refute the rule. But again, there are never situations where state-approved degrees are accepted, but nationally or regionally accredited degrees are not. Nor are there situations where nationally accredited degrees are accepted, yet regionally accredited degrees are not. One does not need some mysterious rule book to discern this, and clamoring for such does not change reality: Unaccredited, state-approved degrees are acceptable for some people in some situations, but all the evidence available points to this being less so than is with properly accredited degrees.

In the U.S., it is accreditation--not state government recognition--that determines what is and is not a recognized, degree-granting institution. Perhaps things are different in Nepal.

Yakthumba's writings are very similar to another's who also advocates the acceptance of degrees from unrecognized schools. I wonder if a degree from Berne University would be accepted in Nepal?

 

The pattern:

1. Log onto degreeinfo with a new identity.
2. Advocate for diploma mills, unaccredited schools, and schools with off-shore "accreditation.
3. Twist the facts. Make them up, if necessary.
4. Have your "facts" tossed in your face by people who know what they're talking about.
5. Go somewhere else (a.e.d., distancedegree.net) and complain about degreeinfo's "bias."
6. Repeat.