Oregon speculation

Hmmm. The Oregon Office of Degree Authorization doesn't like California-approved degrees, it appears.

However, the Oregon Supreme Court and state Bar will allow anyone with an unaccredited law degree and five years' practice as a member of the bar in another state to take the Oregon bar.

So how does this work? Does the applicant from, say, Oakbrook tell the state bar, "I have a degree that I can't tell you about?" Or does the bar applicant commit the crime of submitting a full and accurate application?

The five years' practice alone is not enough; the applicant MUST have graduated from SOME law school. (Perhaps even a non-Bar qualifying course will do, though I doubt it.)

Nosborne, JD
(Who would LOVE to argue the case!)

 

I'm not an attorney, so I'm just a layman speculating here.

ODA doesn't defer to California's judgement by automatically accepting CA-approval as implying OR-approval. ODA wants to look at the school itself. My guess is that ODA would pass many of the CA schools if there were applications, but perhaps fewer from some other states.

Given that the unaccredited California law schools are valid enough to qualify their graduates to take the California bar, presumably they would pass ODA muster and qualify for OR-approval too, if that office checked them out.

So an easy way out of this would be to include an ODA application for recognition somewhere in the Oregon bar application process.

What gives this the force of law? Is there a statute that spells it out? Is there a statute that assigns the OR-bar to make rules? Did the courts decide it somehow?

Can a state bar association make rules that violate state laws? And can attorneys claim exemption from those laws because of the state bar rules? (The bar association could make rules that tax laws don't apply to attorneys...)

There are scope and temporal issues too, right? Suppose that a state law sets the speed limit on highway 123 at 100 mph. Then another state law is passed setting a statewide speed limit at 70, for all highways. Presumably that would mean that the limit on 123 was now 70, and if the cops pulled you over for doing 90, you couldn't wave the 100 mph law at them.

My guess is that the applicant would have to get the ODA to approve his or her school before applying to the bar. Once it is approved, there would be no crime involved in using the degree, either in applying to the bar or subsequently.

 

Just a Case of Loop Holes

The loop holes exist for engineering as well. Any unacredited school graduate who can manage to get an engineering degree but yet qualify for registration via a 20 years experience grandfather clause can practice engineering in Oregon. Once the registration is granted in one state, the person can apply to practice in Oregon via the comity clause.

Just like what so many posters say about unaccredited Doctorates backed up by RA masters or undergrad degrees. The unaccredited degree holder gets the job by some other justification instead of the unaccredited degree credential.


So Nosborne, you know a lot about the registration process for engineers... Scary isn't it??

Regards,

Dick

 

Re: Re: Oregon speculation

Neither am I, but I believe the point our friend was making was it could be argued very successfully. Actually, your example, if the posted speed was 100, would also be easily argued successfully. Also, the state bar is resposible for determining the requirements to sit for the bar. The ODA would lose this one hands down, although it could and would cause some changing of the verbiage on one side or the other or both. This would of course, only affect future decisions.

Tony

umm.......I think anyway.

 

In most states, it is the Supreme Court that sets requirements for Bar admission. The process itself is managed by the State Bar Association as the Court's agent. I don't know if Oregon works this way, though.
Where this is the case, the Supreme COurt jealously guards its sole prerogative to regulate the practice of law and usually declares unconstitutional any attempt by the legislature to infringe this right.

Hmm. Might make an interesting note for the Oregon Law Review!

Nosborne, JD

 

Yes, it's a very bad idea to practise law without a proper license. Lawyers seem to have it locked up pretty tight. I think that it's probably for the best.

It's hard to understand how every once in a while someone wants to defend themselves against a murder charge. If I was on the jury, I couldn't help but figure that if this defendent can be so dumb, he must be dumb enough to be guilty as well.

 

Didn't we just see a Congressman try to defend himself on corruption charges? He was duly convicted.

One of the more prominent criminal defense lawyers here in New Mexico just got charged with some (possibly bogus) drug related felonies. He knows better than to try to defend himself!

Nosborne, JD

 

Re: Just a Case of Loop Holes

I understand that the difference between comity and reciprocity is that if there is reciprocity, a person who holds a license in one state, will be granted a license in another state automatically upon paying the proper fee. In the case of comity, the exams taken and work experience in the first state will be recognized by the second state, but all the requirements of the second state must be satisfied. If you're lucky, the second state will apply either the requrements that existed when the first license was granted, or the current requirements, whichever is more lenient. For engineering licenses, comity applies, not reciprocity.

Gerry Ashton PE (Vermont)

 

In Canada, cases involving smaller amounts can be argued in tax court by non-lawyers. As an accountant, I have argued and won a couple cases where the tax department would not back off on what I considered slam dunks.

The tax department probably knew that a lawyer would cost much more than the amount in question. My reward, in addition to a reduced fee, was a couple of very happy clients whose annually fees exceed a one-time legal fee.

If serious coin was involved, I would not have argued the cases.

 

One of the schools on ODA's Diploma Mill list is the British American Institute of Business, or something like that. Is that the California correspondence law/business school? Their JD is Bar qualified in California.

Nsborne, JD