Here we go again

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by RJT, Aug 30, 2002.

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  1. RJT

    RJT New Member

    Here we go again. In what way does earning an unacredited - but state liscenced approved college degree demonstrate incompetence? There are SL schools which require a signifigant amount of coursework and thesis effort. If an employer/co-worker judges a person soley based on the SL school, and not the work that the employee completed to obtain, nor the caliber of work the employee has demonstrated, in my opinion, the employer/co-worker needs to reevaluate their position. If a CCU grad worked for me and did a great job, and an RA grad worked for me and performed a lesser job. In my opinion the CCU grad is superior, regardless of the fact thet their degree was a State Liscenced, CA Approved Postsecondary Educational Insitution. As the matter of fact, I'd think more highly of CCU, for graduating such competence. Food for thought, looking forward to desert:eek:
     
  2. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Of course, RJT confuses the competence of the person with the quality of the degree. They're different. Ironically, many hiring managers do the same. Expect to be dumped on a lot based upon your PWU degree.

    Congratulations. Through all of the rationalizations, contradictory information, naive comments that belie your claims, and mis-statements, you've finally succeeded in proving the very point you're arguing against. A fine accomplishment. I thank you.
     
  3. Dennis Ruhl

    Dennis Ruhl member

    RJT

    I agree. A company may set minimum standards when hiring someone but after that ones performance and more importantly political acumen lead to advancement.

    The further away from the front door, the less influence human resources departments have. Managers get the people they want.
     
  4. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    You are mixing apples, oranges, and grapefruits.

    1. Earning unaccredited degrees does not demonstrate incompetence and this has not been argued from what I've seen. So your initial assertion is a fallacious.

    2. Regarding unaccredited schools requiring significant work, who defines significant? The accepted standard within this country for the standard required work is RA. Your implied attempt at equating significant with standard is false and also fallacious.

    3. The rest of your paragraph is confusing work performance with credentials. They are two different things. Credentials are most important when it comes to getting the job in the first place. If the person can't get the job then they can't demonstrate their work performance. With an unaccredited degree the opportunities open to get a job are significantly fewer. You can argue that this is unfair until you're blue in the face but it is not going to change the reality of the situation.
     
  5. Dennis Ruhl

    Dennis Ruhl member

    In some management course, long in the past, the conclusion was that the best measure of future performance is past performance. You can never truly guage past performance because past employers are unwilling to offer opinions on past employees, only verifiable facts.

    Another observation in the course was that testing, interviewing etc had results not much different than random selection of qualified candidates.
     
  6. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member


    Most of the supporters for unaccredited degrees happen to be holders of such degrees and therefore biased when it comes to an opinion. I always talk wonderfully about my alma mater even when I know it is not the best.

    Good for RJT the avocat of wonderful schools. Have thought about switching to law school? you should open a practice to defend holders of unaccredited degrees that have been abused in their workplace or discriminated for the use the degree.
     
  7. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    As an aside

    RJT, why do you insist on putting this stuff in the "Distance Learning" forum instead of the "Accredited vs. Unaccredited" forum? The adminstrators just keep moving it to where it belongs. So why do you insist on initially placing it in the wrong place?

    I guess some people just insist on repeating the same mistakes over and over again. :D

    Have fun,
    Bill
     
  8. Dave Wagner

    Dave Wagner Active Member

    Re: Re: Here we go again

    And supporters of regionally-accredited degrees happen also to be holders of such degrees and are likewise biased... A bias which could be good or bad, depending on your point of view.
     
  9. Nosborne

    Nosborne New Member

    Umm. Does this particular dead horse really require additional beating?

    I mean, one might get the impression that some of us lack a life?

    Nosborne, JD
     
  10. Dave Wagner

    Dave Wagner Active Member

    The web IS my life... :)
     
  11. Nosborne

    Nosborne New Member

    Resistance to the Borg is futile...

    Nosborne, JD
    (counsel to composite beings...)
     
  12. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Re: Re: Here we go again

    Might I suggest the University of San Gabriel Law School, Southland University, or Bernadean?;)
     
  13. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Re: Re: Re: Here we go again

    My side hurts from laughing so hard.

    Thanks,
    Bill
     
  14. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Yes all true. My conclusion is that one of the best and only really consistent verifiable facts between job candidates is where they earned their degree. The best way to ensure that the candidate without work experience is qualified is the school that they went to. (GPA is also frequently factored into this equation.) So the bottom line, IMHO, is that employers use the school as the first pass at establishing candidates for their job pool for new graduate hires and it will continue to be that in the foreseeable future.

    This is why I suggest RA degrees. Certain people can make silly assertions about unaccredited bigotory and arguments of unfairness and other tangential irrelevancies all day and it is not going to change the fact that an unaccredited degree has marginal utility. Especially an unaccredited BA/BS because without an accredited BA/BS it's going to be very difficult to even get your foot in the door.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 30, 2002
  15. Dave Wagner

    Dave Wagner Active Member

    Nope. Work samples and personal references. 1st in class at San Jose State is probably much better than last in class at Stanford.

    Maybe.

    Yes, the HR function is typically not a brain trust, but there are exceptions. However, a simple rule like this works better.

    Yes, go for an RA degree if possible and it almost always is available at the undergraduate and now even at the masters level. However, there may be topical or religious or situational reasons to consider unaccredited schools. That is, small schools with ideological or philosophical differences from the mainstream.

    How's this for a tangential irrelevancy? Libertarians lean toward freedom while fascists lean toward order with conservatives somewhere in the ideological middle of the spectrum. So the tangentially irrelevant question is whether unaccredited schools would be allowed to exist at all in a fascist state? On the other hand, can't we just "do" and "let do"?

    Dave
     
  16. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    I disagree.

    The way that I've seen it work is that HR is told what schools and what the minimum GPA is for each school. Where I work the 1st in class at San Jose State wouldn't have a chance because their resume wouldn't even get in the door. A resume from Stanford would at least get on the initial pile.

    Where I work personal references generally aren't even contacted until the candidates have been pared down to onsite interviews.

    HR wouldn't even have a CLUE what to do with work samples. Perhaps the environment that you're considering is a very small company where they don't even have a HR department?
     
  17. Dave Wagner

    Dave Wagner Active Member

    The best trained and managed HR departments look at the people, not just at the schools, even in large companies.

    Dave
     
  18. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    This is true. However, the first requirement is to get your application/resume on the initial pile. I believe that it's common for only certain schools to even be accepted. Again, I'm talking about new grads.
     
  19. Broderick

    Broderick New Member

    RJT,

    I’m a CCU student and I cant even agree with that. I don’t believe the school makes the man, it is a combination of many factors, environment, work ethic, upbringing, and education. For you to say one school’s grad is superior in performance because of the school, just doesn’t fly with me. It is the employee who is superior, not the school when comparing the two.
    Why judge a school from just one person? That is way too stereotypical. Maybe you need to review your sociology notes from K-W.:D

    Veritas,

    Michael
     
  20. Dave Wagner

    Dave Wagner Active Member

    A chimpanzee can be trained to sort resumes by school... My sincere hope is that companies take the time to look at even new grads who come from diverse backgrounds and not necessarily "elite" schools. Just say no to chimps in HR! It's a standard we can live up too... ;-)

    Dave
     

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