Oh yea, O yea. Draw near, as 'tis the Season for (DEAC) Speculation....

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by Johann, Dec 5, 2017.

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  1. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    DEAC usually meets twice a year to announce Accreditation decisions. Up till now, It's been easy to find the exact meeting dates, but not this time. They do still say their meetings are January and June, so I'd expect results to be published in February.

    Here's the list of schools awaiting DEAC's decision on initial accreditation:
    https://www.deac.org/Public-Notices/Institutions-To-Be-Considered.aspx

    "Faites vos jeux, mesdames et messieurs ... Rien ne va plus." :smile:

    J.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 5, 2017
  2. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

  3. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    A sigh from me, as well. However - CIE sold good courses and made good money LONG before they burned their fingers in the densely-populated degree-market. They still have some very interesting bargains in stock, as per their website. Hopefully, those will be around for a good while yet, as long as they have a succession plan, or a buyer waiting in the wings. I believe the current owner is in his 60's and if that's so, it would be natural for him to contemplate retirement, or at least reducing his involvement in the day-to-day running of the business.

    J.
     
  4. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    California Miramar University? Why do they sound familiar to the DETC days to me?

    EDIT: Ah yes, they were with the DETC some years ago. It looks as if they also had ACICS accreditation. Appears that they placed their bets entirely on ACICS and ditched DETC. Looks like they lost that bet BIG TIME.
     
  5. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    Yeah but they'll probably be back.
     
  6. heirophant

    heirophant Well-Known Member

    University of Arkansas eVersity is the one that caught my eye.

    http://eversity.uasys.edu/about/about-eversity/

    Rolled out in 2014, it initially offers bachelors degrees in business, criminal justice, IT, healthcare management and something called 'university studies' (apparently a 'liberal arts' general ed degree).

    http://eversity.uasys.edu/academics/areas-of-study/

    Classes are 6 weeks long. I looked at the business program and it appears that students earn a couple of certificates as they progress, then an associates degree after two years, and a BS after four. So even if kids drop out, they come away with something (the certificates or an associates degree).

    They say that while the various RA branches of the U. of Arkansas system will offer the individual classes, eVersity degrees will be awarded by eVersity itself. It doesn't seem to be accredited at the present time and is an applicant with DEAC. (Would that make it the first DEAC-accredited state university?)

    http://eversity.uasys.edu/about/accreditation/

    I wonder how pressing the accreditation issue will be for a school that's part of the U. of Arkansas system? Wouldn't most people just assume that it's accredited? Maybe the utility of the DEAC accreditation would be making it eligible for student loans.

    It's an attractive thing. $165/unit, apparently both in-state and out-of-state. Books are included! Pay as you go.

    I'd like to see it become RA as soon as possible.

    http://eversity.uasys.edu/cost/tuition/
     
  7. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    You might not like the cost. I'd bet on it doubling if it became RA. I believe almost any school would make it double, whether it needed to or not. Sounds like a good deal as is, but I wonder how many people (notably employers) will really go for "eVersity" appearing on a diploma, and I assume it does... Looks to me like one of those cases where those backward people who don't care for online degrees would know - and react accordingly.

    J.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 8, 2017
  8. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    An e-Versity Bachelor's, assuming no credits transferred in, is around $19K. That's reasonable, but not cheap. University of the People has the same DEAC accreditation, zero tuition and a Bachelor's would cost around $4K. Now that's cheap! What would I be getting from e-Versity that's worth the additional $15K ? And for starters, the UOTP diploma doesn't say "e-University of the People" . . .

    J.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 8, 2017
  9. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    Having UofA attached is going to carry a lot more weight than UofP even though UofP has done an outstanding job of building a strong reputation and making key high-level partnerships that most long-time Universities haven't been able to.
     
  10. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Interesting list. One thing to note: not even one of these institutions is even remotely of mill quality or otherwise questionable. DEAC came a long way from its Barrington days. Moreover, most schools are not generic, but of specialized/unique variety. Again, good for DEAC.

    I'm curious about the two schools that ARE rather generic in their academics: American National University and California Institute of Advanced Management. Both of these are ACICS refugees that appear to cater to substantial or predominant degree to international students. More specifically, students who wish to come to study to the United States, and for this require issue of the I20 document to apply for visa and then obtain, and maintain, the F1 status. This by definition requires a program that's at least 3/4th on campus, every regular semester. How will DEAC deal with these, essentially, B&M schools?

    I note that University of St. Augustine for Health Sciences had voluntarily withdrawn in 2016. This is not surprising, I guess, since they achieved RA through SACS. I always thought that this school is highly unusual in maintaining their DL accreditation for their, successful and highly regarded, Doctor of Physical Therapy program. It's not exactly online massage program, but close. Of course, they did teach clinical components in intensive format at their clinic in Saint Augustine, so they are rightly professionally accredited. Still, you would think this is not possible for a DEAC school.
     
  11. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Exactly. They should lose the stoopid "eVersity" moniker though. No need to shoot themselves in the foot. Old Lawrie Miller's "The name game" article still captures this.
     
  12. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    Yeah, that moniker doesn't do them any favors.
     
  13. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    And just how are people supposed to know the name is "attached." And in what way is it actually "attached?" E-Versity appears on the diploma - it's not from U of A. Wading in further, U of A is regionally accredited; e-Versity is NA (DEAC). WE (at DI - or some of us, anyway) realize it's somehow attached - and even WE aren't clear on the extent of "somehow." Quite a few busy (and possibly biased) HR people are going to see the "E" and pass it by. A semi-diligent few might look it up and find it's NA. If the "e" doesn't put them off, the NA might. It certainly won't be perceived in the same light as a U of A degree - and I don't believe that's the intention, either. And that's as it should be, as the two schools are not on the same footing.

    U of A created this thingy - but there's no clear U of A imprimatur on it, or the diplomas it awards. E-Versity is clearly different though - in name and accreditation. So how does this tenuous state of affairs make e-Versity degrees worth $15K more than UOTP? (I use that abbreviation to distinguish it from U. Phoenix - which usually UoP or sometimes UP in forum-ese.) An e_Versity grad can say, truthfully, that U of A created his school. And that's all he can say. How does he explain the e-Versity (not U of A) name on his diploma, or the fact his school is NA where U of A is clearly RA?

    So - again, what makes an e-Versity degree worth $15K more than the same degree from UOTP?

    J.

    PS - You're right. UOTP has done an outstanding job - all round. At least we can agree on that.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 12, 2017
  14. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    Well, at the moment, the school is not even DEAC since it's never been awarded accreditation by them. But, they are legally piggybacking off the rep and standing of the University of Arkansas system since it was created within the system.

    The average HR department doesn't know what RA or NA is, they generally just know big names over small names. They're more likely to be familiar with AA if anything...

    I would think a person who gets this degree is going to mention that it is part of the U of A system, hence my point about it being attached to it. After all, why wouldn't one mention it? It is the truth. It's not complicated, it would just be written as "University of Arkansas - eVersity" or "eVersity - University of Arkansas System", or something to that effect. Some might even explore the grey area and simpy put "University of Arkansas" which is bold, or "University of Arkansas System" which would be less bold but more clever.
     
  15. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Long post gone in cyberspace. Short version:

    On this, we agree: Right now, e-Versity isn't accredited by ANYONE. Hard to assign a value until it is - but that will probably be quite soon. It's going to be accredited by DEAC - not RA like its uh... parent, U of A.

    So it will be in the same ballpark as U. of the People - not U of A, despite the fact it was created by the U. of A. It appears whatever piggybacking is being done is in beholders' minds. And you can't piggyback accreditation. Or why would they have applied to DEAC? So - does the value of an e-Versity degree depend significantly on the "boldness" and/or "cleverness" of the grad? How (s)he "talks up" his/her school and degree? If so, what justifies the $15,000 cost over a similarly-accredited U. of the People degree?

    HR people more conversant with AA? Perhaps. And likely, some who aren't (yet) - should be. :smile: I'm just not comfortable with the idea of boldness or cleverness in exploiting "grey areas" being at all necessary here. Shenanigans such as these never contribute positively to real value, as I see it. Certainly not $15K worth...

    J.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2017
  16. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    If you break it down to actual value without considering name recognition, then UoTP and this UofA eVersity program may be equal. However, perceived value is what's going to be the main thing on the table and it's a totally different situation in that regard. An employer is more likely to look at "B.A., Business Administration, University of the People" and say, "University of the People? Is that real?" But when they see "B.A., Business Administration, University of Arkansas - eVersity", they're going to see University of Arkansas and automatically know what it is. The eVersity part may make them stop a split second, but they're very likely to assume it's just another UofA program and not make a deal of it. If they happen to look deeper and check the website's accreditation page, they're going to assume it's accredited because UofA is accredited.

    I know you can't actually piggyback accreditation officially, but that is essentially what they're doing since they're not mentioning being unaccredited and are mentioning its direct ties to UofA. I don't even see any place where they're mentioning applying for accreditation, so it's obvious what they're doing there. Put a different way, they've left it open-ended to operate in a gray area, not accredited but tied to an accredited system.

    As for degree holders using gray areas, my point is that people are going to use them whether we approve of it or not. Some will do it without realizing the problem, others may do it deliberately.
     
  17. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    For far less than $15K difference, you could earn a DEAC Master's on top of your UoTP degree, from any number of quite decent schools. Or you could even put the $15K down on a house, if you so chose. Or buy $15K worth of them new-fangled Bitcoin futures, though I wouldn't. The possibilities are endless...

    Accreditors often tell you not to talk about - or talk up - an application, particularly DEAC. Reason: Application doesn't always lead to success - and consequently can lead people on towards eventual disappointment.
    Anyway, point is moot for me, considering where I live. DEAC degrees aren't nearly as well-received in Canada as they are at home, perhaps because we have nothing equivalent - no "second tier," so to speak. New Brunswick allowed a few DEAC distance schools to operate, but that did not mean their degrees were accepted at par with those of the Province's mainstream universities. Most of those schools are closed, now. Meritus and Lansbridge come to mind. My take: I think a lot of them are good - but my opinion counts for exactly zero.

    J.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2017
  18. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Does that make it right? I think not. Don't forget - using (or inventing) gray areas doesn't always work and is not without backfire potential, sometimes landing people in Heißwasser. Now, there's an expression I really like, learned from Dr. John Bear. :smile: Pay $15K more for a degree you have to "talk up?" Perceived value, from exploiting a perceived gray area? Nah - not for me. My take: I'd earn the $4K degree and buy a house with the $15K difference. YMMV, of course... we all make choices.

    J.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2017
  19. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    I've been a supporter of the DETC/DEAC for many years now, so I'd see no problem with that.


    If that's the case with DEAC, I've noticed many DEAC applicants don't heed it. Over the years, I've seen quite a few schools mention applying for accreditation in general, or applying for DEAC accreditation specifically.


    I've never understood that, just like I don't understand how the Grey Cup doesn't come on free TV in Canada, or the fact that you don't have $1 bills, but you have $2 coins.
     
  20. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    Whether it's right or wrong is not something I'm too concerned with, but that's only because I know the origins of these things and would understand why a person may list the degree in a certain type of way, most of us here understand. The HR departments generally won't, and that's where some problems lie.

    That said, to be honest, in many cases a grad of the University of the People is going to have to talk up his/her degree the same because the name itself is so uncommon.
     

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