Kill all the accreditors

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by Kizmet, May 11, 2017.

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  1. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

  2. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    Well, knocking down the entire system and replacing it with a single National Accreditation Council would, at a minimum, end the RA/NA debate.

    Though "NAC or the highway" doesn't have the same flare...
     
  3. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    Doctor of Philosophy in (insert specialization here)

    That's where a "specialization" on a transcript comes in handy. For teaching purposes, are the following two degrees equivalent:
    - PhD in English
    - PhD in Philosophy

    "PhD" means doctor of philosophy. With that in mind, another way of asking the question is: For teaching purposes, are the following two degrees equivalent:
    - Doctor of philosophy in English
    - Doctor of philosophy in philosophy

    It is similar to assuming that an Associate of Arts is a degree in painting -- and qualifies the graduate to teach courses in art.

    The regional accreditators have simply imposed metric standards. Having a general PhD does not qualify someone to teach everything under the sun, to include philosophy. That's just the way it is.
     
  4. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    The article suggests far better solutions than blind, passive acceptance of the status quo. Let's forget "the way it is" and work towards "the way it should be."

    "Make accreditation great again?" :laugh:

    J.
     
  5. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    Understood. Can you give an example of a way to improve it?
     
  6. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Some were suggested in Richard Vedder's article. What stood out, to me, is the present non-use of common sense. As Vedder says:

    (1) "Well trained academics do a lot of “learning by doing” in their post-graduate lives."

    (2) "A little common sense should prevail here. Even if the Higher Learning Commission wants to curb the practice of people teaching out of their field in which they received training, a record of teaching a subject for a decade or more ought to count for something. Make the provision apply only to new hires, or allow exemption for up to, say, 10 percent of the faculty who have invested time in their post-college careers to learning a lot in a different field."

    (3) His suggestions, among others:

    • perhaps the US has too many accreditors - and types of accreditation, institutional, programmatic etc.
    • The deficiencies of the present system are in part due to its dependence on inputs - rather than information and outcomes.
    • Perhaps more than a simple binary system - accredited or not - is needed

    Those are Vedder's thoughts - you don't need me for them. They're all in the article.

    My take:

    There's something in the immortal words of John D. Loudermilk that might help fix US Accreditation:

    "Bring dynamite and a crane
    Blow it up and start over again." (Tobacco Road)


    One idea - maybe what would suit the U.S. is something closer to the system we have here in Canada - or the UK one.

    J
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 11, 2017
  7. b4cz28

    b4cz28 Active Member

    Here's my take away from the article....'Feelings feelings its not fair its not fair feeeeeelings its not fair REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!"
     
  8. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Can't find these lyrics anywhere. Are they an ersatz version of "Feelings," written by Morris Albert? If so, I prefer John D. Loudermilk's work - ANY of his songs. I don't suppose it has anything to do with Lily Allen's Not Fair? LILY ALLEN LYRICS - Not Fair No? ...Didn't think so.

    We've had our fun. The thread is seriously derailed.... back to Accreditation (I hope).

    J.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 12, 2017
  9. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    I've always envisioned a system based on student ratings and post-graduation outcomes. A system that shows it's satisfying students and getting results for students in the real world. If such a thing existed, I'd think the public perception of many schools would change negatively as I think many would score poorly moreso today than ever before. When we know of so many programs lacking in quality that are able to become accredited (and then in the eyes of the unknowing having equal standing), there has to be a better measure. Anyone who thinks otherwise would be surprised to read some of the battles I've read online, such as one where students actually argued with certain conviction that a school like Touro is on par with Harvard, one person even arguing that because they're both regionally accredited that gives credence to the idea that they're on the same level. The general public is truly ignorant.

    I'm not saying the current accreditation system is a total failure, but prices continue to climb, more people are gaining degrees but the cost appears to be outrunning the value.
     
  10. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I like the idea. Do it by departments within schools. If we went by real-world results, there would likely be some large-scale shuttering - a closing-down beyond what we've ever seen. Followed by a system re-boot like we've never seen, as well.

    J.
     

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