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  1. #1
    Johann is offline Registered User
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    Former Trump U. execs run FL college - $150 mill/yr in FSA.

    Two former "Trump University" execs land on their feet. They're running a Florida career school that gets $150 million a year in Federal Student Aid.

    Ex-Trump University Executives Run College That Gets $150 Million From Taxpayers | Huffington Post

    Where will it all end?

    J.

  2. #2
    Neuhaus is offline Registered User
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    Wow, that was a really long article that basically amounted to "it used to be a for-profit school and now is a non-profit school."

    I like little gems like this:

    According to the school’s catalogue, Ultimate Medical Academy was founded in 1994 as a non-profit institution. In 2005, the school was acquired by Ultimate Medical Academy, LLC, which, according to a lawsuit filed against the school, is a “foreign” limited liability corporation.
    A "foreign" LLC means that it was formed outside of that state. That's it. If I form an LLC in New York and do business in Florida my LLC is considered "foreign." That's it. There's nothing inherently nefarious about it. It's also such a mundane detail that it should hardly warrant mention in an article like this.

    The funny thing is that this for-profit witch hunt keeps narrowing in focus. First, it was all for-profit schools. Then it was seeming to zero in on NA schools (as when it zeroed in on Full Sail ). Now it seems that the media only wants to focus on ACICS.
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  3. #3
    Johann is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neuhaus View Post
    Now it seems that the media only wants to focus on ACICS.
    What I focused on was not ACICS. It was the involvement of former "Trump University" executives. From a non-university selling $40K seminars, they land at a school getting $150 million a year in Federal Student Aid. Nothing else. Let's hear what you think of that.

    J.
    Last edited by Johann; 09-13-2016 at 12:17 PM.

  4. #4
    SteveFoerster is offline Resident Gadfly
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johann View Post
    What I focused on was not ACICS. It was the involvement of former "Trump University" executives. From a non-university selling $40K seminars, they land at a school getting $150 million a year in Federal Student Aid. Nothing else. Let's hear what you think of that.
    He didn't say you were doing this, he said, correctly, that the mainstream media is now doing this. I don't think it was a particularly off-topic observation.
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  5. #5
    Neuhaus is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johann View Post
    What I focused on was not ACICS. It was the involvement of former "Trump University" executives. From a non-university selling $40K seminars, they land at a school getting $150 million a year in Federal Student Aid. Nothing else. Let's hear what you think of that.

    J.
    I think that I kind of wish I were an executive?

    Personally, as much as I dislike Trump, I don't find Trump U to be the massive fraud that is alleged. As I've said before, Trump University never claimed to be a degree granting institution. They used university in the same way that Hamburger University does.

    I think that any such get rich quick or get rich guaranteed seminar is a ripoff. But it's a caveat emptor sort of ripoff. It's like the sort of ripoff when you pay $75 to have $30 shoes re-soled. You are, indeed, getting a product that most people can identify immediately as largely worthless. Trump University seminars are ripoffs like Tony Robbins seminars are ripoffs.

    That someone made money from them doesn't surprise me. That those individuals went on to make money elsewhere doesn't surprise me.

    Why exactly should I be disgusted that this school pulled in $150M in federal financial aid? If they committed fraud in securing those funds then yes, I'm disgusted. But that hasn't been shown to be the case.

    My biggest issue with UMA is the same issue I have with a lot of (primarily) ACICS schools; tuition is really high for what they are offering.

    The Pharmacy Technician program costs around $16k. This is a program you can get at Penn Foster for under $1k and it includes placement at a CVS/Walgreens for an externship.

    Unlike many of the other schools, however, they also offer a few programs that could very easily help a person move up a few rungs on the earning ladder. They have an RN program and an X-Ray Tech program, for example.

    So yeah, high tuition for low earning fields (pharmacy tech/patient care technician/medical assistant ). That's definitely a red flag. But I'd wager that the quality of their education is also a bit higher if they are approved for regulated professions. Overpriced? Quite possibly. Fraudulent? There is nothing to indicate that is the case. With Everest you had people earning degrees in IT in 2013 learning how to use Windows 95. So it was overpriced and the programs were useless. If I were a low skilled worker and a school like UMA helped me become an RN? I wouldn't care if a handful of the executives came from Trump University.
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  6. #6
    Johann is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neuhaus
    I don't find Trump U to be the massive fraud that is alleged...
    Maybe not massive - It's far from a "Bernie Madoff," but I don't like it at all. Maybe it's just me. I know it doesn't pretend to award degrees - but as I see it, any enterprise is dishonest, if the objective is just to extract large sums of money from foolish people who will cripple themselves with debt. I've no time for people who knowingly take part in perpetrating such schemes. Shame on them - and those who give them work. That is, work beyond a minimum subsistence wage. Everybody has to live - or they'll have to resort to crime.

    The Trump U. thing is a real paradox, to me. I still have the useful, advice-filled free book that Trump U. sent me, at my request. One of its lessons was basically "Don't EVER screw up your good name. In business, it's the most valuable thing you've got." Then Mr. Trump lends his own name to this kind of enterprise? What did he expect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neuhaus
    I think that any such get rich quick or get rich guaranteed seminar is a ripoff. But it's a caveat emptor sort of ripoff. It's like the sort of ripoff when you pay $75 to have $30 shoes re-soled.
    Perhaps it's more. There's a big difference in amount and enormity of the cheat, between a $40 K seminar and a $75 shoe-resoling. And at least you get something out of the shoe-deal. They will last a while longer, hopefully.

    Re: ACICS. Personally, I don't see it as worthwhile to get very upset at ACICS. By the time I get good and riled up, they might very well be gone.

    J.

  7. #7
    Bruce is offline Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johann View Post
    Where will it all end?
    The media looking for anything, regardless of how minor, non-relevant, or absurd it is, to attack Trump?

    Only if he loses the election. If he wins, they'll hound him for the rest of his life, even out of office, and he'll be blamed for anything and everything if a Democrat succeeds him, ala Bush 43.
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  9. #8
    Johann is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveFoerster View Post
    He didn't say you were doing this, he said, correctly, that the mainstream media is now doing this. I don't think it was a particularly off-topic observation.
    I don't think so either, Steve. Never did. Your interpretation of Neuhaus is faultless, but your translation of Johann-ese might need some work. It's a difficult, disorganized lingo, even for the initiated.

    Perhaps I should have said something like: "Yeah. The media are obsessed with ACICS, but Johann says - enough about ACICS. What bugs Johann is the Trump U. people at this school. What do you think of that?" Hope it's clear now.

    J.
    Last edited by Johann; 09-13-2016 at 01:50 PM.

  10. #9
    sanantone is offline Registered User
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    This story is pointless. The media doesn't care about investigating the real issues with Trump. They've mostly ignored the allegations of rape by three different women. Other celebrity and politicians' sex scandals are covered to death.
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  11. #10
    SteveFoerster is offline Resident Gadfly
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johann View Post
    Perhaps I should have said something like: "Yeah. The media are obsessed with ACICS, but Johann says - enough about ACICS. What bugs Johann is the Trump U. people at this school. What do you think of that?" Hope it's clear now.
    Ah, okay. Yes, crystal clear.
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  12. #11
    Bruce is offline Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanantone View Post
    This story is pointless. The media doesn't care about investigating the real issues with Trump. They've mostly ignored the allegations of rape by three different women. Other celebrity and politicians' sex scandals are covered to death.
    The propaganda wing of the Democrat Party (almost every news outlet) would never, in a bazillion years, pass up that kind of story about Trump, if there was even a scintilla of evidence that made it even remotely plausible.

    Have you ever considered that the women are full of shit and looking for paydays?
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  13. #12
    sanantone is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce View Post
    The propaganda wing of the Democrat Party (almost every news outlet) would never, in a bazillion years, pass up that kind of story about Trump, if there was even a scintilla of evidence that made it even remotely plausible.

    Have you ever considered that the women are full of shit and looking for paydays?
    I guess that you don't subscribe to the belief that potential victims of rape deserve to be believed. If there isn't anything else, it further demonstrates a pattern of how Trump thinks of women. And, he has been married three times and caught publicly cheating on his wives. If the same scenario happened with a Democratic politician, you would be all over it. The sad part is that Trump is not even the conservative Republican you think he is.
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  14. #13
    SteveFoerster is offline Resident Gadfly
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanantone View Post
    I guess that you don't subscribe to the belief that potential victims of rape deserve to be believed.
    They deserve to be taken very seriously. The difference is subtle, but important.
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  15. #14
    Bruce is offline Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanantone View Post
    I guess that you don't subscribe to the belief that potential victims of rape deserve to be believed.
    Hillary believes in that, very strongly, now that she's running for President. When her husband was sexually assaulting women, not so much.

    Quote Originally Posted by sanantone View Post
    If there isn't anything else, it further demonstrates a pattern of how Trump thinks of women.
    All the women he's promoted to senior positions in his company would likely take issue with that. They have, in fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by sanantone View Post
    And, he has been married three times and caught publicly cheating on his wives.
    So what? Ronald Reagan was married twice, and he was the greatest President of my lifetime. John F. Kennedy couldn't keep in his pants, and he did okay as POTUS.

    Quote Originally Posted by sanantone View Post
    If the same scenario happened with a Democratic politician, you would be all over it.
    Uhhh......Bill Clinton?

    Quote Originally Posted by sanantone View Post
    The sad part is that Trump is not even the conservative Republican you think he is.
    Please point out where I ever said that I thought Trump is a conservative Republican.

    HINT: You can't.

    Sorry, I'll go with the successful businessman who says mean things once in awhile and has been married 3 times over the pathological liar who endangered national security on numerous occasions because of arrogance and entitlement, is not indicted solely because of who she is, and looks like she's in God's Waiting Room more and more every day.
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  17. #15
    sanantone is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce View Post
    Hillary believes in that, very strongly, now that she's running for President. When her husband was sexually assaulting women, not so much.
    I knew you would come out and show your hypocrisy again. You have double standards.

    All the women he's promoted to senior positions in his company would likely take issue with that. They have, in fact.
    I'm sure there are women in senior positions at Fox despite Roger Ailes' history of sexual harassment.

    Uhhh......Bill Clinton?
    Yes. You do not hold Trump to the same standards you would hold a Democratic politician such as Bill Clinton. Honestly, it seems as if you have no interest in learning anything about Donald Trump. You just take his word for everything despite him being caught in boldfaced lies such as not having supported the war in Iraq. You don't care to see any of his tax returns, you don't care to learn more about his medical history , and you don't care to know if he's worth as much as he says he is.

    Please point out where I ever said that I thought Trump is a conservative Republican.

    HINT: You can't.

    Sorry, I'll go with the successful businessman who says mean things once in awhile and has been married 3 times over the pathological liar who endangered national security on numerous occasions because of arrogance and entitlement, is not indicted solely because of who she is, and looks like she's in God's Waiting Room more and more every day.
    True. Trump is one of the liberal Democratics, a group you keep bashing as if Trump isn't a part of that group. It's interesting how, when Trump's casinos went bankrupt, none of the competing business in the area went bankrupt. What a lot of people also don't know is that Trump was, personally, almost $1 billion in debt. The banks decided that he would be worth more to them if they didn't let him go personally bankrupt, but he sure was close.
    Last edited by sanantone; 09-14-2016 at 04:01 PM.
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  18. #16
    Neuhaus is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanantone View Post
    I'm sure there are women in senior positions at Fox despite Roger Ailes' history of sexual harassment.
    There were. And Ailes was brought down because they took him on. Do you really not see how that is different from female executives defending Trump?

    I'm no Trump fan but Bruce is correct that female executives have defended Trump and his treatment of them, and other women, in his organization. How could that possibly compare to a guy who was brought down because women in similar positions wouldn't stand for his harassment?

    If anything, the Ailes situation undercuts any argument a person might have that Trump's female executives are defending him out of fear.
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