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  1. #1
    Neuhaus is offline Registered User
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    DEAC Accredited PhDs?

    It could happen...

    The Commission has approved a pilot project for the review of PhD programs. The pilot will
    help DEAC determine whether it is appropriate to pursue the inclusion of PhD programs
    within the scope of its accreditation activities and formally petition CHEA and USDE. DEACaccredited
    institutions are invited to apply to participate in the pilot. Participation will support the important work of testing and refining appropriate accreditation standards
    and procedures. Please visit the DEAC Applications and Reports page to review more
    information about the pilot.
    Source

    Also, it looks like the University of Fairfax managed to pull themselves back from the brink. They were on a show cause order issued earlier this year and received their renewal during the last meeting of DEAC.

    Hopefully this is truly a sign that DEAC is running a much tighter ship than ACICS and that DEAC schools are meeting the challenge.
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  2. #2
    Bruce is offline Moderator
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    I think the important question is, how would DEAC-accredited Ph.D.'s be received?

    Based on the piling-on currently happening with RA schools that are for-profit, and the persistent myth that online schools in general are substandard, I don't think they'll be received well at all.
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  3. #3
    Neuhaus is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce View Post
    I think the important question is, how would DEAC-accredited Ph.D.'s be received?

    Based on the piling-on currently happening with RA schools that are for-profit, and the persistent myth that online schools in general are substandard, I don't think they'll be received well at all.
    I think it will depend more on the individual than the accreditation. There are a handful of top programs that might immediately impress. Then there are schools that are unquestionably "legitimate" in the eyes of the masses. They may not Impress but they likely won't draw ire.

    Beyond that, the unknown schools are likely to draw, primarily, indifference. If you piss someone off then maybe you'll get negativity like that Union grad who was called out on a blog for having a PhD from a diploma mill.

    But I'd say a DEAC PhD will be received about as well as a DEAC accredited EdD . In some situations it will be perfectly fine. In others it won't cut it. If a person is a publishing machine then maybe they will have a different outcome.
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  4. #4
    Johann is online now Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce View Post
    I think the important question is, how would DEAC-accredited Ph.D.'s be received?
    OK by me - though they never asked.... But somehow, I'm hearing eerie, mocking laughter from a truck-stop somewhere in the USA.

    J.

  5. #5
    LearningAddict is offline Registered User
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    Wasn't the University of Atlanta briefly issuing Doctorates under the then DETC? I also thought California Coast was doing PhD's at one point, can't remember if CCU was accredited or not at the time.

    Correct me if I'm wrong.

  6. #6
    Johann is online now Registered User
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    Up till this pilot, DETC has been strictly first professional doctorates only - no PhDs. IIRC CalCoast only awarded them prior to accreditation.

    J.

  7. #7
    Neuhaus is offline Registered User
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    I, personally, am not a believer in Rich Douglas's notion of workplace professionals benefitting from a doctorate to improve their "professional practice." Not my thing.

    But you know all those times when a professor's time bomb explodes because, after years of teaching with a Masters, they suddenly pop up with a PhD from a mill? What if they begin earning NA doctorates instead? Every example of a for-profit PhD holder we typically conjure up had the job before the doctorate and they weren't immediately run from town by an angry mob. I suspect the same would be true of a DEAC accredited PhD.

    Still, I'm curious how many schools will actually take part and if we will see a variety of fields represented or if all of the DBAs and EdDs will just get rebranded.
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  9. #8
    LearningAddict is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johann View Post
    Up till this pilot, DETC has been strictly first professional doctorates only - no PhDs. IIRC CalCoast only awarded them prior to accreditation.

    J.
    Thanks, Johann.

  10. #9
    LearningAddict is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neuhaus View Post
    I, personally, am not a believer in Rich Douglas's notion of workplace professionals benefitting from a doctorate to improve their "professional practice." Not my thing.

    But you know all those times when a professor's time bomb explodes because, after years of teaching with a Masters, they suddenly pop up with a PhD from a mill? What if they begin earning NA doctorates instead? Every example of a for-profit PhD holder we typically conjure up had the job before the doctorate and they weren't immediately run from town by an angry mob. I suspect the same would be true of a DEAC accredited PhD.

    Still, I'm curious how many schools will actually take part and if we will see a variety of fields represented or if all of the DBAs and EdDs will just get rebranded.
    I'm confident the DEAC will handle this properly, especially under their current leadership. At the moment, they're one of the few NA accreditors not under scrutiny, but that might be because they're so far off the radar. That of course can work against a PhD if no one has ever heard of your school, but at least it won't be an issue of the DEAC having any bad publicity firestorms (knock on wood).

  11. #10
    Neuhaus is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by LearningAddict View Post
    I'm confident the DEAC will handle this properly, especially under their current leadership. At the moment, they're one of the few NA accreditors not under scrutiny, but that might be because they're so far off the radar. That of course can work against a PhD if no one has ever heard of your school, but at least it won't be an issue of the DEAC having any bad publicity firestorms (knock on wood).
    I don't think being on the radar is a good thing for an accreditor.

    NYSBOR is off the radar but that hasn't held back the PhD programs at Memorial Sloane Kettering or Rockefeller. I'm sure that those institutions, and their alumni, carved that path more than their accreditor.

    People don't think in terms of accreditors. They typically think in terms of institutions. DEAC doesn't really have a flag ship institution. But if it did I would imagine Penn Foster and Ashworth would be in the running for that title. Compare their reputations to, say, ITT Tech , which became synonymous with ACICS in the media.

    But it isn't as if ITT Tech was their only problem. Remember that post a few months ago from the person who said that another ACICS school was awarding them an honorary doctorate as soon as they made a large donation to the school? There were/are some shenanigans over there that, frankly, would be shocking if we saw them at a DEAC school.
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  12. #11
    SteveFoerster is offline Resident Gadfly
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    Quote Originally Posted by LearningAddict View Post
    I'm confident the DEAC will handle this properly, especially under their current leadership.
    Agreed, or at least I see no reason why not. It's just not that big a change, and since research doctorates have been offered by RA schools for years it's nothing new.

    At the moment, they're one of the few NA accreditors not under scrutiny, but that might be because they're so far off the radar.
    I don't see why they'd be further off the radar than ACICS, which went from no one other than people on this forum knowing what they were to KABOOM in, like, fifteen seconds.

    That of course can work against a PhD if no one has ever heard of your school, but at least it won't be an issue of the DEAC having any bad publicity firestorms (knock on wood).
    Many people, including myself, find that lesser known schools are a good fit for a PhD program. I think it all depends on what one's goals are.
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  13. #12
    Neuhaus is offline Registered User
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    ACICS went from 0-60 in what seemed like a few seconds. But ITT Tech was on the radar for far longer.

    I'm unaware of DEAC having a large embarrassment school that represents such a sizable portion of their accredited institutions the way ACICS had ITT Tech . The especially sketchy DEAC schools tend to lose their accreditation.
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  14. #13
    LearningAddict is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neuhaus View Post
    I don't think being on the radar is a good thing for an accreditor.
    Not saying it's good or bad, just that the DEAC exists in near anonymity compared to their counterparts. We generally don't hear anything about an accreditor until one of its schools gets into trouble and for the most part that's been an issue the DEAC has been fortunate to avoid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neuhaus View Post
    DEAC doesn't really have a flag ship institution. But if it did I would imagine Penn Foster and Ashworth would be in the running for that title.
    I would say both could be interchangeable as their flagship school. They are the most "tried and true", they bring in most of the enrollments and are the most well-known within that fold of lesser-known schools.

  15. #14
    LearningAddict is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveFoerster View Post
    I don't see why they'd be further off the radar than ACICS, which went from no one other than people on this forum knowing what they were to KABOOM in, like, fifteen seconds.
    My comment was meant to denote that the schools under DEAC are generally lesser known, and of course there are significantly fewer of those schools when compared to other national accreditors like ACICS, so the exposure is much lower.

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  17. #15
    Neuhaus is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by LearningAddict View Post
    Not saying it's good or bad, just that the DEAC exists in near anonymity compared to their counterparts. We generally don't hear anything about an accreditor until one of its schools gets into trouble and for the most part that's been an issue the DEAC has been fortunate to avoid.



    I would say both could be interchangeable as their flagship school. They are the most "tried and true", they bring in most of the enrollments and are the most well-known within that fold of lesser-known schools.
    They're also very unlikely to result in scandal. Neither accepts Federal Financial Aid. And the only way you could graduate in debt is if you put your entire education on your credit card. Even if you did it would take only a minor bump in your pay to justify the $7k - $10k you spent on a degree.

    My point is just that ITT Tech wasn't the best thing for ACICS to be known for. And even though DEAC doesn't have a school that draws as much negative attention as ITT Tech , consider what a typical uninformed journalist would do/say upon looking at the two schools we just identified as DEAC's top institutions...

    Two schools that plaster their front page with sale ads.

    Even though Ashworth and PF are, arguably, of higher quality than ITT the appearance isn't so great. As Steve said, ACICS was fairly anonymous as well until one day when they absolutely were not. DEAC has a lot more going for it and I believe has fewer red flags around its schools. But it is hardly blogger-proof.
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  18. #16
    LearningAddict is offline Registered User
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    I've always been against the way Ashworth and Penn Foster present themselves. The front page sales pitch is too much, I agree.

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