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  1. #1
    newsongs is offline Registered User
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    Question about California, "State Approved" status and BPPE

    I am curious about the status of what were formally "state approved" universities in California.

    This seems to have changed to the following:

    Institutional Approval by the Bureau of Private Postsecondary Education (BPPE) of the State of California.

    What would be the distinction and how does this differ from previous state approval. Are there many schools that have "institutional approval" from BPPE and yet are not nationally or regionally accredited.

    Thanks!

  2. #2
    Gabe F. is offline Registered User
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    I can't offer a comment on everything, but I do know that state-approved colleges can no longer just hang out with state approval as a means to an end. The BPPE requires these colleges to pursue accreditation and a statement attesting to same on the college's website.

    Here's an example: Frederick Taylor University | Government Approval

    "STATE REGULATIONS REQUIRING ALL APPROVED SCHOOLS TO OBTAIN ACCREDITATION BY JULY 2020


    §71775.5. Pre-enrollment Disclosure; Notice to Prospective Degree Program Students; Institutions with Existing Approvals to Operate.
    (a), An approved unaccredited institution enrolling a student in a degree program shall, prior to execution of an enrollment agreement, provide the student with the following notice, which shall be in at least 12-point type in the same font as the enrollment agreement:
    “Notice to Prospective Degree Program Students
    This institution is approved by the Bureau for Private Postsecondary Education to offer degree programs. To continue to offer degree programs, this institution must meet the following requirements:
    • Become institutionally accredited by an accrediting agency recognized by the United States Department of Education , with the scope of the accreditation covering at least one degree program.
    • Achieve accreditation candidacy or pre-accreditation, as defined in regulations, by July 1, 2017, and full accreditation by July 1, 2020.
    If this institution stops pursuing accreditation, the following will happen:
    • The institution must stop all enrollment in its degree programs, and
    • Provide a teach-out to finish the educational program or provide a refund.
    An institution that fails to comply with accreditation requirements by the required dates shall have its approval to offer degree programs automatically suspended.
    Institutional Representative Initials: __________ Student Initials: __________13
    Date: ___________ Date: ___________”
    (b) The student and an institutional representative shall initial and date the notice prior to executing an enrollment agreement. An initialed copy of the notice shall be given to the student and the original shall be retained in the enrolled student’s records.
    (c) The notice shall also be posted immediately adjacent to wherever an institution’s degree granting programs are described and shall include, at a minimum, the following locations:
    (1) The institution’s catalog.
    (2) The institution’s website.
    (3) The institution’s degree program brochures.
    (d) This section shall remain in effect until July 1, 2021, and as of that date is repealed.
    NOTE: Authority cited: Sections 94803, 94877, 94885 and 94885.1, Education Code. Reference:
    Sections 94885, 94885.1, 94897, 94900, 94900.5, 94909, 94927.5 and 94932 Education Code."

  3. #3
    Rich Douglas is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by newsongs View Post
    I am curious about the status of what were formally "state approved" universities in California.

    This seems to have changed to the following:

    Institutional Approval by the Bureau of Private Postsecondary Education (BPPE) of the State of California.

    What would be the distinction and how does this differ from previous state approval. Are there many schools that have "institutional approval" from BPPE and yet are not nationally or regionally accredited.

    Thanks!
    Nothing's changed. The state, through its BPPE, still evaluates and approves unaccredited schools. Some of these schools operate programs that lead to licensure in some professions, but unaccredited schools cannot open new ones; the old ones are 'grandfathered' in.

    Regarding the accreditation requirement....we'll see. The state has made this threat before and backed away. (But they've never gone this far with it in times past.) If the state doesn't back off, expect a legal challenge to emerge as we approach the deadline. The state might also modify the requirement. I know that most of the unaccredited schools in the state are NOT moving towards institutional accreditation at this point.

    Other possibilities for these schools are to:

    1. Close. It happened after the state eliminated the "authorized" category, requiring all unaccredited schools to get approved.

    2. Get accredited. Hard, because some of these schools would love to be accredited, but are too small to qualify and to carry the burden of maintaining accreditation. This is particularly true with RA, which can cost into six figures. Also, some don't really fit any of the non-RA options.

    3. Partner with an accredited school, either awarding the other school's degrees for work done at the now-unaccredited school, or awarding its degrees under the aegis of the accredited school. In this second option, the accredited school would/could 'validate' the degrees. We've seen arrangements like these in the UK and Australia.

    4. Get one or more degree programs accredited. Getting programmatic accreditation of even one degree program will satisfy the state's requirement. It's not yet clear if programmatic accreditors will consider degree programs at schools that are not institutionally accredited.

    5. Fight.

    6. Wait. Things on this issue usually change.


    Interesting that Gabe would decide to quote a page from FTU. If you don't know why that's interesting, well....

  4. #4
    newsongs is offline Registered User
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    Caught inbetween

    I started a CCU degree years ago and it was "state approved" at the time and able to sit the Psych. Exam. Life caused me to suspend it. In the meantime, CCU became nationally accredited as you know. I now have the wonderful opportunity to complete it but of course it won't be nationally accredited after the fact. I'm personally thrilled to finish it. I just wonder about it in terms of having BPPE approval but not national. I suspect it (but don't now yet) will not qualify any longer for the exam (though had I finished it at the time it would easily have). Nevertheless I value the experience. CCU has a very responsive staff in the completion of the degree.

  5. #5
    newsongs is offline Registered User
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    I started at CCU while it was state approved only...working on a doctorate. I suspended the work and then resumed it this year in a teach out. It is now currently BPPE approved (and of course nationally accredited as well). At the time, I could use the degree to sit the Psych. exam in CA. I suspect that may not be the case any longer but I am still happy with the upcoming accomplishment. My degree will fall into that window in between.... started in one status, completed after the accreditation, worth something to me.

  6. #6
    newsongs is offline Registered User
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    Sorry for the duplicate type response. I didn't think the first one went through!

  7. #7
    Rich Douglas is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by newsongs View Post
    I started at CCU while it was state approved only...working on a doctorate. I suspended the work and then resumed it this year in a teach out. It is now currently BPPE approved (and of course nationally accredited as well). At the time, I could use the degree to sit the Psych. exam in CA. I suspect that may not be the case any longer but I am still happy with the upcoming accomplishment. My degree will fall into that window in between.... started in one status, completed after the accreditation, worth something to me.
    Perhaps I'm missing something here, but if you complete the degree after the school becomes accredited, then you have a degree from an accredited school.

    Further, even if you completed the degree before the school becomes accredited, many situations will still treat that degree as having come from an accredited school, even though this is not technically true.

    I don't know if your particular degree will still qualify you to sit for the state certification. That's something you could ask CCU about, of course.

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  9. #8
    novadar is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by newsongs View Post
    I started a CCU degree years ago and it was "state approved" at the time and able to sit the Psych. Exam. Life caused me to suspend it. In the meantime, CCU became nationally accredited as you know. I now have the wonderful opportunity to complete it but of course it won't be nationally accredited after the fact. I'm personally thrilled to finish it. I just wonder about it in terms of having BPPE approval but not national. I suspect it (but don't now yet) will not qualify any longer for the exam (though had I finished it at the time it would easily have). Nevertheless I value the experience. CCU has a very responsive staff in the completion of the degree.
    If the school is accredited prior to the date your degree is awarded, it is an accredited degree.

    A hyper nitpicking registrar could claim that the CREDITS you completed prior to accreditation may not transfer if you were intending to use portions of the degree to satisfy transfer requirements. That would be massive rat-hole indeed.
    -------

  10. #9
    newsongs is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Douglas View Post
    Perhaps I'm missing something here, but if you complete the degree after the school becomes accredited, then you have a degree from an accredited school.

    Further, even if you completed the degree before the school becomes accredited, many situations will still treat that degree as having come from an accredited school, even though this is not technically true.

    I don't know if your particular degree will still qualify you to sit for the state certification. That's something you could ask CCU about, of course.
    I consider the degree to be unaccredited, but it does help to some small degree that CCU is now accredited. I am considering enrolling in their Doctor of Education in Educational Psychology (Ed.D.) based on my RA masters in a related field.

    In checking the psych board's rules, it currently states that "Section 2914 of the Business and Professions Code (Code) provides that individuals who possess an earned doctorate degree in psychology , educational psychology , education with a field of specialization in counseling psychology or education with a field of specialization in educational psychology from an approved or accredited educational institution meet the educational requirements for licensure".

  11. #10
    newsongs is offline Registered User
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    Thanks Rich and Novadar for your comments. It makes sense what you both say about the degree coming after their accreditation and thus it being from an accredited school.

  12. #11
    Neuhaus is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Douglas View Post
    Nothing's changed. The state, through its BPPE, still evaluates and approves unaccredited schools. Some of these schools operate programs that lead to licensure in some professions, but unaccredited schools cannot open new ones; the old ones are 'grandfathered' in.

    Regarding the accreditation requirement....we'll see. The state has made this threat before and backed away. (But they've never gone this far with it in times past.) If the state doesn't back off, expect a legal challenge to emerge as we approach the deadline. The state might also modify the requirement. I know that most of the unaccredited schools in the state are NOT moving towards institutional accreditation at this point.

    Other possibilities for these schools are to:

    1. Close. It happened after the state eliminated the "authorized" category, requiring all unaccredited schools to get approved.

    2. Get accredited. Hard, because some of these schools would love to be accredited, but are too small to qualify and to carry the burden of maintaining accreditation. This is particularly true with RA, which can cost into six figures. Also, some don't really fit any of the non-RA options.

    3. Partner with an accredited school, either awarding the other school's degrees for work done at the now-unaccredited school, or awarding its degrees under the aegis of the accredited school. In this second option, the accredited school would/could 'validate' the degrees. We've seen arrangements like these in the UK and Australia.

    4. Get one or more degree programs accredited. Getting programmatic accreditation of even one degree program will satisfy the state's requirement. It's not yet clear if programmatic accreditors will consider degree programs at schools that are not institutionally accredited.

    5. Fight.

    6. Wait. Things on this issue usually change.


    Interesting that Gabe would decide to quote a page from FTU. If you don't know why that's interesting, well....
    7. Switch to a non-degree granting institution. While not applicable for all schools, there have been situations in New York where a school simply loses degree granting authority. It happens mostly with religious schools. They suddenly stop awarding the M.Div. and award a Masters Diploma or an Advanced Diploma in Divinity or Theology.

    Incidentally, to the point of the original question, I was recently speaking with a registrar of a school located in NYS and was intrigued to learn that schools in New York, even if they are RA, take a generally kinder approach to NYSBOR Registered (state approved) and NYSBOR Accredited (USDOE Recognized) coursework and programs than is seen in other states. Because an NA school located in NY is also Registered that means that many NA/FBA schools in New York get some pretty favorable treatment in credit transfer and admissions to other in-state schools.

    So it's possible that an unaccredited but state registered degree program (there are not many as they all go on to get accreditation) or an NYSBOR accredited degree would have much more utility at, say, CUNY than a CA BPPE degree might have with the University of California . I don't know the full extent to which this accommodation extends and, for all I know, a similar situation exists in California. But it was an interesting conversation.
    M.B.A. University of Scranton (Anticipated 2019)
    M.S.M. (Project Management) University of Management and Technology
    B.S.O.L. Thomas Edison State University
    B.S.B.A. Colorado Technical University
    A.A. University of Scranton
    Certificate in Human Resources Management - Cornell University School of Industrial and Labor Relations
    Certified Employee Benefit Specialist (CEBS)
    Senior Professional in Human Resources (SPHR)

  13. #12
    Rich Douglas is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neuhaus View Post
    7. Switch to a non-degree granting institution.
    Such a suggestion made at degreeinfo.com? Shocking!

  14. #13
    Neuhaus is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Douglas View Post
    Such a suggestion made at degreeinfo.com? Shocking!
    Yet another instance of me trying to further my "certinfo.com" agenda.
    M.B.A. University of Scranton (Anticipated 2019)
    M.S.M. (Project Management) University of Management and Technology
    B.S.O.L. Thomas Edison State University
    B.S.B.A. Colorado Technical University
    A.A. University of Scranton
    Certificate in Human Resources Management - Cornell University School of Industrial and Labor Relations
    Certified Employee Benefit Specialist (CEBS)
    Senior Professional in Human Resources (SPHR)

  15. #14
    RFValve is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neuhaus View Post
    7. It happens mostly with religious schools. They suddenly stop awarding the M.Div. and award a Masters Diploma or an Advanced Diploma in Divinity or Theology.

    .
    This happened to my church, they used to grant degrees and now just a certificate. In the religious context, this doesn't really matter as what is important is that a church recognizes the qualification for a ministerial license.

    There are some instances where people prefer degrees mainly if interested in teaching at the University level but the reality is that is so difficult to get a position even as an adjunct in a religion department that it might not be so realistic to teach with an MDiv where there are tons of PhDs in religion looking for work.

    There are some programs that are meant for licensing purposes that only grant a diploma or certificate, in Canada this is the case for CPA programs that just grant diplomas or certificates but these are mainly meant to qualify to write an exam.

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  17. #15
    Johann is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFValve
    There are some programs that are meant for licensing purposes that only grant a diploma or certificate, in Canada this is the case for CPA programs that just grant diplomas or certificates but these are mainly meant to qualify to write an exam.
    Not quite like that. For entry to CPA program in Canada (or US), you must have a degree first. From the Canadian CPA page:

    "You must have both an undergraduate degree and specific subject area coverage to be admitted to the new CPA Professional Education Program (CPA PEP).

    Here's the whole thing: https://www.cpacanada.ca/en/become-a...becoming-a-cpa

    Quote Originally Posted by RFValve
    This happened to my church, they used to grant degrees and now just a certificate.
    Was this in Canada? if so, did they actually lose Canadian degree-granting status -- or was it a case of never having it in the first place?

    There are bona-fide religious schools here that award degrees, but I can't think of any church in Canada that has degree-granting status of its own. There's no "religious exemption" here. A religious body could issue all the diplomas and certs it wanted, but AFAIK, no degrees without specific degree-granting authority - i.e. Provincial Charter.

    J.
    Last edited by Johann; 06-24-2016 at 02:17 PM.

  18. #16
    Johann is offline Registered User
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    Further to the above, here's a page re: the religious schools where I live (Ontario) that can confer degrees.

    Privately Funded Ontario Institutions with Degree-Granting Authority

    And here's the story in Québec:

    CICIC - Postsecondary education in Quebec

    Churches indeed have influence over higher education at some universities and colleges in Canada - as they do in the US, but the degree authorization pertains to those colleges and universities - not any church itself, as far as I know. So, again - please tell me which Church was offering degrees - under what sort of authorization? And what level(s) of degree(s) was/were being offered?

    J.
    Last edited by Johann; 06-24-2016 at 02:37 PM.

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