+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 16 of 40
  1. #1
    morleyl is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Sunnyvale
    Posts
    389

    Scary: Site selling degrees from Reputable University

    Not sure if this is possible but this site offers degrees from what they call reputable universities not just fake ones.. Just email them and ask about their service and you would be surprised by the names they send back.

    LINK REMOVED BY MODERATOR

    This is very wrong to be selling degrees from reputable schools. Of course maybe its a fake diploma being passed as real..
    Last edited by Bruce; 05-04-2016 at 10:02 AM.

  2. #2
    Rich Douglas is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Posts
    11,356
    First, this has been going on for decades, if not centuries.

    Second, employers and other consumers can easily and quickly verify someone's degree.

    Third, it is a simple thing to replicate diplomas and transcripts, customizing them even.

    Finally, they're not selling "degrees." A degree is a title bestowed upon someone by a university. What they're selling are "diplomas" and, perhaps, "transcripts." But as I implied above, you can purchase these things and still not have a degree, a fact that is simple to check.

    I used to play sports. Then I realized you can buy trophies. Now I am good at everything. -- Demetri Martin

  3. #3
    Bruce is offline Moderator
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    9,531
    I removed the link to the site, we have no desire to give those sites any business or traffic.
    --
    Bruce Tait
    A.S. (Criminal Justice) Quincy College
    B.A. (Criminal Justice) Curry College
    M.A. (Criminal Justice) University of Massachusetts-Lowell
    M.A. (Forensic & Counseling Psychology) Massachusetts School of Professional Psychology
    Certificate (Investigative Psychology) CUNY-John Jay College of Criminal Justice

    MOOC's
    Certificate (Disability Awareness and Support in Higher Education) University of Pittsburgh
    Certificate (International Criminal Law) Case Western Reserve University
    Certificate (Psychology of Criminal Justice) University of Queensland
    Certificate (Classical Sociological Theory) University of Amsterdam



    RA Criminal Justice Degrees by Distance Learning - Updated 3/16/08

    NA Criminal Justice Degrees by Distance Learning - Updated 3/20/08

  4. #4
    Rich Douglas is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Posts
    11,356
    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce View Post
    I removed the link to the site, we have no desire to give those sites any business or traffic.
    I'm of two minds on this. On the one hand, I think the links can be illustrative, plus I'm always for more openness, not less. On the other, I agree with Bruce's point--also made by others--that having them here lifts the profile of those sites when searched for.

    On balance, I have to agree with the mods and the removal.

    I recall John Bear going through this in the pre-internet days regarding listing contact information for the degree mills he wrote about. Was this just giving them free advertising , or was it important to let people see these things first hand. IIRC, he eventually removed them. (Jeez, I have the books in my library downstairs; I oughta go look.)

  5. #5
    Johann is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    5,550
    Some years back, it was possible to buy a fake Russian diploma with a difference - it would be from a "real" State University and some corrupt person working on campus would enter the buyer's name into the school's records, creating a fake transcript and all other pertinent records. Everything could then be verified - just like any "real" student. It was called проведенный диплом - provedennyi diplom and I think cost averaged around $7500 to ~$10,000.

    Putin's government put a stop to this type of corruption in the early 2000s, with a real game-changer. Bogus "Diploma-selling sites" were set up on the Internet by Russian police to bust those who applied. It worked pretty well. One such site led to the arrest of 75 "applicants" - some (not all) of them politicians!

    J.
    Last edited by Johann; 05-04-2016 at 04:43 PM.

  6. #6
    mbwa shenzi is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    On my way to Zilimadjou
    Posts
    385
    Quote Originally Posted by Johann View Post
    Some years back, it was possible to buy a fake Russian diploma with a difference - it would be from a "real" State University and some corrupt person working on campus would enter the buyer's name into the school's records, creating a fake transcript and all other pertinent records. Everything could then be verified
    You can buy those diplomas at Moscow tube stations too, on original templates printed by Goznak, with all safety features and the correct serial numbers.
    Character be like belle, una no fit hide am forever.

  7. #7
    Maniac Craniac is offline Moderator
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    punoɹɐ ƃuıƃuɐɥ ʇsnɾ
    Posts
    6,148
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Douglas View Post
    On balance, I have to agree with the mods and the removal.
    In any case, this is Chip's policy and we follow it regardless. I'll add, however, that DegreeInfo's pages are given high priority in Google searches. You can experiment the next time you make a thread by waiting about a day and searching for the exact same topic in Google. More than likely, the DegreeInfo thread will appear somewhere on the first page. To allow spammer and/or scammer links to stay up is giving them a powerful tool for free advertising and, possibly, the unwarranted illusion of credibility.

    Case in point: https://www.google.com/search?q=sell...ble+university On my search, I got this page as the second hit.
    Last edited by Maniac Craniac; 05-05-2016 at 11:37 AM.
    BA, Social Sciences ---- The University Formerly Known As Thomas Edison State College

    "If you aren't going to use your heart, then what's the difference if it gets broken?"

    - Kevin McCallister (portrayed by Macaulay Culkin), Home Alone 2: Lost In New York

  8. Advertisement

  9. #8
    LearningAddict is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    895
    Is it a worry about the link attaching to search? If so, that makes sense. However, I recall a board that used to put some sort of tag around the link so that it didn't show up as a link and didn't get picked up by search engines. Of course, that was some years ago and search technology has probably figured out ways to still pick up things somehow.

  10. #9
    Johann is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    5,550
    Quote Originally Posted by mbwa shenzi View Post
    You can buy those diplomas at Moscow tube stations too, on original templates printed by Goznak, with all safety features and the correct serial numbers.
    Interesting - absolutely genuine-looking diplomas, I'm sure. But I suspect they're not "verifiable" i.e no entries are made in the school's records, in the purchaser's name, like a проведенный диплом (provedennyi diplom.) Well, I guess you can't expect even Vladimir Putin to be able to end all corruption for good.

    In Toronto, I'm told, one can buy masterfully-made fakes of Canadian university diplomas, indistinguishable from the real thing, that cost $3,000. By buying one, the purchaser is one verification request away from disaster, of course. Nice wall-hangers, though - but pricey.

    J.
    Last edited by Johann; 05-05-2016 at 02:19 PM.

  11. #10
    Johann is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    5,550
    Yes indeed - really good fakes, cheap, in the Moscow subway. $500 - $1,000. They're so good, partly because a huge number of "real" blank diplomas were stolen. Verification? No - you're on your own!

    Article about Moscow Subway diplomas here:

    Fake Diplomas No Longer Buy a University Education | News | The Moscow Times

    Found another - including account of Medical diplomas for sale in the subway for $550 - but it was so old (2006) I didn't bother including it.

    J.
    Last edited by Johann; 05-05-2016 at 03:12 PM.

  12. #11
    Johann is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    5,550
    From the above article:

    Only 8 percent of working Russians have bought fake diplomas, according to a June survey by recruiting agency JobList.ru.
    Only 8%? That sounds huge! Oh well, maybe it isn't, comparatively speaking. One expert - who should know - estimated yearly US sales of fake diplomas at 100,000, so...

    J.

  13. #12
    Neuhaus is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Syracuse, NY
    Posts
    2,726
    Shortly after I joined the Navy a friend from Scranton left the university a year shy of graduation. He got a commercial real estate gig in New York City and he was really excited to get to work.

    He told them, however, that he had graduated. To the employer's credit they wanted to see some official transcripts. He had a set of doctored transcripts made up. He put it in a UScranton envelope, which he printed at home, and he put some sort of fancy seal on the envelope along with a warning that the transcripts were only official if the seal was intact.

    His employer got transcripts that looked real enough, came in an envelope that looked like it could very well be legitimate and had a postmark from Scranton , PA. That was all they needed.

    He eventually did lose his nerve with this rouse. It was partially prompted by my firing someone who pulled the same trick, but with a degree from King's College, at my first post-Navy employer. He went back to school, finished off his necessary credits and had his degree awarded just before switching to a new employer.

    My point is that, even when degree verification is done, verifiers typically rely upon student provided information to actually verify things. That's the reason why people with Almeda degrees get through screenings. Most verification companies don't check accreditation, they don't check the NSC clearinghouse, they call a school, fax the authorization form and "verify" what you said was accurate and true.

    The easiest way to lie about a degree is to simply say you have a degree from a place where you haven't earned a degree. In 85% of the scenarios where you'll be asked about your degree this will likely suffice.
    M.B.A. University of Scranton (Anticipated 2019)
    M.S.M. (Project Management) University of Management and Technology
    B.S.O.L. Thomas Edison State University
    B.S.B.A. Colorado Technical University
    A.A. University of Scranton
    Certificate in Human Resources Management - Cornell University School of Industrial and Labor Relations
    Certified Employee Benefit Specialist (CEBS)
    Senior Professional in Human Resources (SPHR)

  14. #13
    LearningAddict is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    895
    Technically, if a person puts down that they graduated from a diploma mill, they aren't lying. It's just, the act of getting a milled diploma itself is dishonest. It's disappointing that there doesn't seem to be much if any training available for screeners to know what schools are fake and how to use the proper databases. Or, at least I assume there isn't since so many frauds are getting through.

  15. #14
    Rich Douglas is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Posts
    11,356
    Quote Originally Posted by Neuhaus View Post

    The easiest way to lie about a degree is to simply say you have a degree from a place where you haven't earned a degree. In 85% of the scenarios where you'll be asked about your degree this will likely suffice.
    My personal experience and my observations of this subject over the past (nearly 4) decades jibes with this perspective. I can't vouch for the exact percentage quoted here, but it feels right when I think back on my own interviewing over the years--and my doctoral dissertation on it.

    I don't recall anyone ever--EVER--asking me about my degrees. I've had to verify them on a (very) few occasions, but always (with one exception) with either copies of my diplomas (really?) or unofficial copies of transcripts (seriously?). Even the federal government didn't ask for original transcripts--.jpg images of my transcripts were fine. And in most job applications, I wasn't even asked to prove anything; they just accepted what I said to be true. (Not even one has questioned why a nice California boy like me has a doctorate from a British university....located in a city THAT NOW RULES THE RICHEST SOCCER LEAGUE IN THE WORLD!

    Okay, sorry about that. But I think Neuhaus is right, and I think it is the root cause of the diploma mill industry. Other forces contribute--diplomaism, for example--but if employers would thoroughly and consistently check, it would devastate diploma mills. (No, it wouldn't. But it would help themselves, their workers, and applicants with legitimate credentials. That would be a good thing.)

    Neuhaus and I both hold the SPHR. This isn't even covered by the certification's competencies nor the qualifying examination. That's telling.

  16. Advertisement

  17. #15
    Neuhaus is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Syracuse, NY
    Posts
    2,726
    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Douglas View Post
    My personal experience and my observations of this subject over the past (nearly 4) decades jibes with this perspective. I can't vouch for the exact percentage quoted here, but it feels right when I think back on my own interviewing over the years--and my doctoral dissertation on it.
    Yeah, I made up the 85% but based it on a similar gut perception. It was also influenced, at least in part, from my father assuring me that 85% of life is just showing up.

    I don't recall anyone ever--EVER--asking me about my degrees. I've had to verify them on a (very) few occasions, but always (with one exception) with either copies of my diplomas (really?) or unofficial copies of transcripts (seriously?). Even the federal government didn't ask for original transcripts--.jpg images of my transcripts were fine. And in most job applications, I wasn't even asked to prove anything; they just accepted what I said to be true. (Not even one has questioned why a nice California boy like me has a doctorate from a British university....located in a city THAT NOW RULES THE RICHEST SOCCER LEAGUE IN THE WORLD!

    Okay, sorry about that. But I think Neuhaus is right, and I think it is the root cause of the diploma mill industry. Other forces contribute--diplomaism, for example--but if employers would thoroughly and consistently check, it would devastate diploma mills. (No, it wouldn't. But it would help themselves, their workers, and applicants with legitimate credentials. That would be a good thing.)

    Neuhaus and I both hold the SPHR. This isn't even covered by the certification's competencies nor the qualifying examination. That's telling.
    Any time I've been asked for "proof" of my education all that had been requested was a photocopy of the diploma. The easiest part of a college education to forge. The thing that anyone with a basic Microsoft Suite can make during the first 15 minutes of their lunch break. That's the thing they wanted.

    I've offered transcripts. Most don't care. Those that do have said "unofficial" transcripts are fine and were more than willing to accept stuff I printed off of the CTU online campus website.

    I don't disagree that the diploma mill industry has played into this. But I will add that a contributing factor is that HR reps are constantly pushed to close requisitions. Sure, hiring managers want to hire someone quickly and efficiently. But in many organizations the number of reqs you close (and how long they remained open) is a metric that is used to evaluate HR professionals at various levels.

    So, you have the organization's "gatekeeper" who is evaluated, not by how well they keep that gate, but by how quickly they can usher people through it. Add to that an ignorance of accreditation and what do you have? Ignorant people in a hurry to just hire someone.

    The biggest holdup for most hiring is very often the hiring manager. Hiring managers very often want to buy a unicorn at a horse auction. But it also happens that there simply isn't an adequate applicant pool for some specialized jobs. Consider, I live and work in upstate New York. We're at least 4 hours away from NYC. When my marketing department opens a requisition for a videographer with over 10 years of production experience, how many qualified applicants might I reasonably get?

    I'll tell you that I get more than a handful of people who think the job sounds neat. Some of them have some film school experience. Most are YouTube tinkerers and Tarantino wannabes. I get a few former camera men from local news stations. I get a bunch of photographers who say things in their cover letters like "though I have no videography experience the leap from photography is pretty short..."

    So when an experienced videographer actually shows up on our doorstep, with the requisition creeping up on 6 months old, the desire to do a deep dive into him/her isn't really that appealing. Not so much because we would "rather not know" but because those deep dives take time. And when you take too much time you run the risk of losing that candidate to an employer who acted faster. Besides, for a job like that, your portfolio matters a lot more than if you actually wrapped up your final semester at Full Sail University .

    So, which came first? Diploma mills or HR /Hiring manager apathy? No idea. But I'd wager that they play off of one another. There are probably a dozen or so other things that factor in as well. The most immediate one that comes to my mind is hiring managers who want someone who can "do the job" and don't give a lick about education . Happens more than you think.
    M.B.A. University of Scranton (Anticipated 2019)
    M.S.M. (Project Management) University of Management and Technology
    B.S.O.L. Thomas Edison State University
    B.S.B.A. Colorado Technical University
    A.A. University of Scranton
    Certificate in Human Resources Management - Cornell University School of Industrial and Labor Relations
    Certified Employee Benefit Specialist (CEBS)
    Senior Professional in Human Resources (SPHR)

  18. #16
    SteveFoerster is offline Resident Gadfly
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Northern Virginia & Dominica, West Indies
    Posts
    10,891
    Same here. I've had to supply official transcripts for grad school admissions, of course, but I don't think any prospective employer has ever asked for proof of my academic history .
    BS, Info Sys concentration, Charter Oak State College
    MA in Educational Tech, George Washington University
    PhD in Leadership, U. of the Cumberlands (in progress)
    More at http://stevefoerster.com

Similar Threads

  1. A list of reputable brick and mortar schools that offer online degrees?
    By fairyrealm in forum General Distance Learning Discussions
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 03-12-2016, 09:57 AM
  2. A reputable name graduated from Louisiana Baptist University
    By potpourri in forum General Distance Learning Discussions
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 06-21-2010, 07:09 AM
  3. Selling legitimate degrees
    By BA1 in forum General Distance Learning Discussions
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 03-31-2009, 10:49 AM
  4. St Regis faculty selling degrees in India
    By manjuap in forum General Distance Learning Discussions
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 08-03-2003, 08:41 AM
  5. Hilarious (but scary) story on University of Ravenhurst
    By John Bear in forum General Distance Learning Discussions
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 07-03-2002, 05:51 AM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts




1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15