UNC - Bogus classes and automatic A's and B's

"CHAPEL HILL, N.C. (AP) — Bogus classes and automatic A's and B's are at the heart of a cheating scandal at the University of North Carolina that lasted nearly two decades, encompassing about 3,100 students - nearly half of them athletes."

Are any of us really shocked ? Its just on the front page now.

This puts many a discussions, in this forum, in question and up for debate; . Academic Integrity / Diploma Mill, Regional Accreditation vs National, For-Profit / Not-For-Profit . . . . .

Really then . . . what is the difference between those UNC's 3100 diplomas and a Diploma Mill ?

I guess, I am disappointed more than anything else.


Regards,
Michael

 

College sports = money & prestige & MONEY

It's just the way it is.

 

The scope of this is mind-boggling: thousands of students (nearly all football and basketball players) over 18 years, with fake grades and thus fake degrees. And we talk about "watchdogs" as a safeguard against this sort of thing. Turns out the head of the Parr Center for Ethics on campus, and Chair of the Faculty, was at the heart of the fraud and the attempted cover-up.

A really wonderful book dealing with such matters is Page Smith's "Killing the Spirit." (http://tinyurl.com/qf9xv63) [Among much else, he deals with the fact that football coaches typically earn more than ten times as much as the most senior faculty on a campus.]

 

Also worth checking out is the documentary "Schooled: The price of College Sports" on Netflix streaming.

 

Athletes only make up a small percentage of the entire college population. If 2% of your entire student population makes up your "so not even a majority" of the cheating population you don't think that should be a concern?

 

No, that's not the way that it is for the vast majority of college athletes. It is only that way for college basketball at the Division I level, and college football at the Division I FBS level.

There is little to no money in other college sports, or at other levels of play. ESPN is not paying the big bucks for the rights to air Division I cross country, or Division II volleyball, or Division III soccer, or NAIA tennis.

*****

In football, for example, it's obviously true that Florida State vs. Auburn in the 2013 FCS National Championship involved enormous amounts of money and media coverage.

But that was not true for North Dakota State vs. Towson in the 2013 NCAA FBS National Championship.

It was not true for Northwest Missouri State vs. Lenoir-Rhyne University in the 2013 NCAA Division II Football Championship.

It was not true for Wisconsin-Whitewater vs. University of Mount Union in the 2013 NCAA Division III Football Championship.

And it was not true for Grand View vs. University of the Cumberlands in the 2013 NAIA Football Championship. Cumberlands gets discussed regularly here at degreeinfo, but does anyone ever comment on the fact that they played for a national football championship last year? No, because nobody cares about NAIA football.

*****

This doesn't excuse the abuses in NCAA Division I basketball and Division I FBS football. They have a problem. The point is simply that those sports in those divisions are the exceptions in college athletics, not the rule.

 

Some people cannot see the trees because the forest is in the way.

 

And some people can see both the trees and the forest.

 

Naturally, CalDog is one of those people, right? :Thinkingof_:

 

What is SACS going to do about it?

 

SACS is currently reviewing the situation, as per the quote below.
They will have to decide between the following four options:

1. Do nothing to UNC
2. Put UNC on "Warning"
3. Put UNC on "Probation"
4. Remove UNC from SACS membership (which would mean loss of regional accreditation)

The most likely outcomes are probably #2 or #3.

UNC may also be subject to penalties from the NCAA, although these would focus on the athletic programs specifically, while any penalties from SACS would affect the whole school.

 

I see nothing wrong with what has happened. There have always been and will continue to be this kind of thing that happens whether it's to do with athletics, how people look, and so forth. There will always be people who get preferential treatment.

There have always been teachers who give better grades because a student looks hot. Is it not fair? Not really. I think it's within the teachers discretion to be able to do as they wish.

I'm happy to see that the 3,000+ students that graduated with those degrees won't have them taken away. Regardless of whether they earned or not who cares -- the school is regionally accredited so it shouldn't matter. SACS won't do anything about it which is the right thing.

Think about it. This is the UNC - Chapel Hill and they have such name recognition. If this were just an average everyday college they would have most likely taken much swifter action. Here again, it comes down to name recognition, prestige, and that those take paramount over the average everyday school.. So you want to talk about fair? I think it has been demonstrated. It's a spiral effect that just keeps going.

And don't tell me you didn't know of teachers that were nutty and just did weird things like gave out any grade, or just plain wanted to make themselves look good so they inflated grades.

Just remember the students that went to college 20-30 years ago where a grade of C was considered the norm. Now there is so much grade inflation that who gives a rip. And the upper management let this continue and covered up. At least they were working in harmony and the school had a great athletic thing going. Why do people have to ruin such a good thing? That really stinks.

 

:haha:

I'd suggest that you refine your sarcasm a bit because you're making some contradictory statements here. It will come across more effectively if you can be consistent.

 

Unc

I think probation or warning won't get it done. If this isn't an accreditation-compromising event I don't know what is.

Long story short- if SACS doesn't pull their accreditation for a period of time, they've lost all credibility. And they know it.

I think you'll see UNC lose accreditation. There are plenty of options in the UNC system to get this done. It'll be shocking and painful, but it's necessary. That being said I think SACS will do everything they can to get them back on track.

Anyone doubting this, just know that SACS is not the Western Association. They mean things they say.

 

Not going to happen. They have the #1 medical school in the country. This is just a black eye.

 

UNC is not going to lose it's accreditation over this. It is one of the top universities in the nation and has highly regarded programs in many fields.

The classes were independent studies classes offered through one particular department. By all accounts, the practices of these classes ended in 2011 and several of UNC's employees were fired or placed under disciplinary review for their role in the issue.

This isn't even a speed bump for UNC.

 

But we're back to... 'This is one of the best schools in the country.' Is it? It might have the best students and great programs...but it also has been involved in one of the largest and longest-running academic shams we know about.

People knew about this. Again, if you don't know SACS you don't know what you're talking about.

Further, the whole 'this isn't a blip on the radar' comment is one of the least informed I've ever heard. This is a Death Star on the radar. Self-reporting is a big piece of the pie here, and the treatment of the informants might get them if nothing else does. It's a failure to monitor.

Let's clarify loss of accreditation. It can be regained, and will be. But not pulling it is not going to cut it here. To do so plays into every known criticism of RA. Probation is not enough- you get that for a poor balance sheet. This is much more insidious.

 

UNC-Chapel Hill Should Lose Accreditation UNC-Chapel Hill Should Lose Accreditation – The Conversation - Blogs - The Chronicle of Higher Education

A good read from the Chronicle. This is spot on. It must happen, and if it doesn't we might as well scrap RA. Too big to fail won't work here.

 

It's hard for me to believe that the accreditor just woke up one day and realized that there was a problem. I think it's common knowledge that virtually every NCAA Div. 1 university has dumbed-down academics for their athletes. I have heard stories about jocks (male and female) who are actually discouraged from taking certain courses or programs because they are difficult and will distract the athlete from their athletic endeavors. People may not know specifics but I think it's common knowledge that this occurs all across the country. My point is this. If UNC is punished in any meaningful way then UNC will point the finger at every other school that has a Div. 1 team in any sport. Once one domino falls there will be a cascade of others to follow. With all the money involved they'll never lose their accreditation. Probation maybe with LOTS of promises made and a long time-line for a total solution. This is the way the world works, why should this case be any different?

And then there's this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_North_Carolina_State_University_people