state authorized

Hi all,

I have a BA degree from a School in Florida that is exempt under sec **1005.06 (1) (f) as a religious college.

It is a non-accredited school but is is authorized by Florida's Education Dept.-CIE ( Commision on Independent Education).

How do you see such degrees ? Do you think they are legitimate ?

In your opinion is it ok to list this degree on a resume as it is not a degree mill but it is non-accredited.

Thanks for your thoughts on this.

Peace123




**The 2007 Florida Statutes

Title XLVIII
K-20 EDUCATION CODE

Chapter 1005
NONPUBLIC POSTSECONDARY EDUCATION



1005.06 Institutions not under the jurisdiction or purview of the commission.--

(1) Except as otherwise provided in law, the following institutions are not under the jurisdiction or purview of the commission and are not required to obtain licensure:

(a) Any postsecondary educational institution provided, operated, or supported by this state, its political subdivisions, or the Federal Government.

(b) Any college, school, or course licensed or approved for establishment and operation under part I of chapter 464, chapter 466, or chapter 475, or any other chapter of the Florida Statutes requiring licensing or approval as defined in this chapter.

(c) Any institution that is under the jurisdiction of the Department of Education, eligible to participate in the William L. Boyd, IV, Florida Resident Access Grant Program and that is a nonprofit independent college or university located and chartered in this state and accredited by the Commission on Colleges of the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools to grant baccalaureate degrees.

(d) Any institution that offers only avocational programs or courses, examination preparation programs or courses, contract training programs or courses, continuing education, or professional development programs or courses.

(e) Any institution that was exempt from licensure in 2001 under s. 246.085(1)(b), Florida Statutes 2001, as long as it maintains these qualifying criteria: the institution is incorporated in this state, the institution's credits or degrees are accepted for credit by at least three colleges that are fully accredited by an agency recognized by the United States Department of Education, the institution was exempt under that category prior to July 1, 1982, and the institution does not enroll any students who receive state or federal financial aid for education. Such an institution shall notify the commission and apply for licensure if it no longer meets these criteria.

(f) A religious college may operate without governmental oversight if the college annually verifies by sworn affidavit to the commission that:

1. The name of the institution includes a religious modifier or the name of a religious patriarch, saint, person, or symbol of the church.

2. The institution offers only educational programs that prepare students for religious vocations as ministers, professionals, or laypersons in the categories of ministry, counseling, theology, education, administration, music, fine arts, media communications, or social work.

3. The titles of degrees issued by the institution cannot be confused with secular degree titles. For this purpose, each degree title must include a religious modifier that immediately precedes, or is included within, any of the following degrees: Associate of Arts, Associate of Science, Bachelor of Arts, Bachelor of Science, Master of Arts, Master of Science, Doctor of Philosophy, and Doctor of Education. The religious modifier must be placed on the title line of the degree, on the transcript, and whenever the title of the degree appears in official school documents or publications.

4. The duration of all degree programs offered by the institution is consistent with the standards of the commission.

5. The institution's consumer practices are consistent with those required by s. 1005.04.

The commission may provide such a religious institution a letter stating that the institution has met the requirements of state law and is not subject to governmental oversight.

 

Personally, I view schools which operate under a religious exemption to automatically be suspect. I would never label such a school a degree mill without further investigation, because it is possible for a religious unaccredited school to be academically solid (Bob Jones was an example), but I think they're generally (and rightly) viewed with extreme skepticism.

 

Thanks Bruce. I appreciate your reply and thinking.

For the record in my case the classes I completed through this school required as much and sometimes more work and learning then the classes I took at B&M schools that have regional accreditation.

Peace123

 

I believe Florida has had some quality exempt schools. IIRC, Luther Rice Seminary operated without accreditation for a long time, and they seemed legitimate.

 

Doesn't 1005.06 (1) (f) say that schools in this class are exempted from state authorization?

The fact that a school is operating legally under a religious exemption means that the school's proprietors aren't violating the law by running it. The exemption is their protection against being dragged into court, but it doesn't tell the rest of us whether the school is credible and academically legitimate.

My own feeling is that since the vast majority of religious exempt seminaries are doubtful, it's best to treat the entire class with considerable a-priori skepticism. I typically give these schools and their degrees very little credence.

I'd say sure. It's ok to list it, but if you do, then you will need to be able to talk it up and defend its credibility if you encounter skepticism. If you don't think that you can do that convincingly, then you probably should leave it off.

Oftentimes it's not all that bad. Unless we are formally appling for a job or boasting insufferably and trying to assert authority, there's usually little occasion to tell other people about our degrees. That's true whether they are accredited or not. If our conversation is thoughtful and well-informed, then people will form their opinions of us based on that. So if a non-accredited school successfully educates us, then perhaps it's done its duty.

 

I am not a lawyer, but from a legal standpoint, there appear to be a couple of important questions which you haven't addressed.

Question 1: Is your resume being used to apply for religious jobs, or for secular jobs?

The Florida law that you cited is clearly meant to provide an exemption for schools that offer religious degrees for religious purposes. It says explicitly that "only educational programs that prepare students for religious vocations" can qualify for the exemption.

So if you are looking for a religious job, then no problem. But if you are looking for a secular job, then yes, there is a problem. According to the state law that you cited, your school is not legally authorized to offer degrees for non-religious occupations. So your degree does not appear to be legally valid for non-religious purposes.

If you want to use your degree for secular purposes, then you need to get a degree that meets secular standards. You can't keep claiming the religious exemption once you step outside of the religious realm.

Question 2: Is your resume being used to apply for jobs in Florida, or in other states?

Every state has different laws; some states have religious exemptions, others do not. In Oregon, for example, it would be illegal to use your degree on a resume, unless (a) you added a disclaimer to indicate that your degree was unaccredited, or unless (b) your school was registered with the State of Oregon as a religious-exempt institution.

 

Peace123:

You have to march to your own drumbeat, and believe in yourself and the goals you want to accomplish. I have followed this board for over 4+ years, and if you are looking for approval from this group, you will find most board members are not sympathetic of any higher education not recognized by the United States Department of Education that is, TRACS, RA or NA.

Now having said that, it depends on what you are trying to accomplish. My wife has a BSW (social work), MSW (social work) and is a Licensed Clinical Social Worker (LCSW). She also has a PhD (concentration Christian Counseling) from Louisiana Baptist University. She specializes in foster care and is recognized by her peers, colleagues, state officials and national officials etc as an expert and is the person to consult about starting, preserving and training foster parents. All individuals from the various private and state agencies that she interacts with about foster care have no problem addressing her as Dr. Rogers. So Peace123 march to your own drumbeat, feel good about what you have accomplished approval comes from within!


Paul S Rogers, LCSW, RN, CNS (retired)

 

Truly inspirational. But at the same time, it's also a good idea to respect state law. And the fact is that states often do put legal limits on what can be accomplished with a religious-exempt degree.

Louisiana Baptist University just happens to be a prominent example. It seems reasonable for a religious-exempt school to offer degrees in "Christian Counseling". But back in the 1990s, LBU began offering graduate and undergraduate degrees in the somewhat less religious field of "Business". The Louisiana Board of Regents responded as follows:

A lot of LBU business students found themselves stuck with expensive, unaccredited college credits that wouldn't transfer to accredited schools. This may not have furthered their dreams.

 

Thank you all for your replies, they are much appreciated.

Steve, my degree is from Universal University of Holistic Spirituality ( an interfaith institution). I was originally enrolled in their Seminary program seeking ordination but transferred into their BA in Spiritual Life Coaching program.

Peace123

 

If you hold a legal unaccredited degree from a religious-exempt school, then you have a free-speech right to tell a prospective non-religious employer about it. After all, it's the truth.

But you also have an ethical obligation to tell the prospective employer that the degree is unaccredited, and was not granted under the same quality assurance standards normally required for non-religious degrees. After all, that's the truth too.

In some states, this is a legal obligation, not just an ethical obligation.

Oregon maintains a list of unaccredited schools that have qualified for a religious exemption, as well as a separate list of unaccredited schools that have been found acceptable by ODA. So while both religious and secular schools can apply for ODA approval, religious schools have the additional option of seeking Oregon religious exemption.

 

I'm not sure what a "spiritual life coach" is. It kind of sounds like "free-lance clergyman", which is ok with me. What do spiritual life coaches do? What do they need to learn? Where do they find employment?

That brings us to Caldog's first question:

As long as religious-exempt schools teach explicitly religious subjects and as long as their graduates stick to religious vocations, then the various traditions, denominations and individual seekers will have to make their own decisions about what to accept. That's the nature of religion, I guess.

But as Caldog suggests, problems can arise when religious-exempt schools award degrees in more secular areas. UUHS provides a great example:

http://uuhspirituality.com/phd_natural_health.htm

Here's a woman in a white coat peering into a man's ear. She's a doctor! She examines patients, she treats and heals physical ailments. But this is a Natural Health Ministry, and therefore (so the argument presumably goes) it's constitutionally-protected and no medical licenses are necessary. I'm not sure that most state medical licensing boards would agree.

UUHS graduates who hang out their shingles and then go into practice run the risk of putting themselves into legal jeapardy. (To say nothing of the risk to their patients.)

It's interesting that UUHS's program listing doesn't currently link to the College of Natural Health, even though the latter's webages are still there on the UUHS website. The featured offerings now are Ph.D.s in "Metaphysics" and in Spiritual Counseling.

http://uuhspirituality.com/programs.htm

Spiritual counseling is an interesting subject. Obviously counseling has always been among the clergy's most important tasks. So the idea of giving members of the clergy formal training in the subject has a lot of merit. And it's only a very short step from there to advanced "religious" degrees in psychological subjects.

While religious degrees in medicine are probably pushing things a bit too far and may be legally doubtful, religious-exempt seminaries awarding advanced degrees in pastoral counseling along with ordinations to would-be alternative "mental health professionals" looks like it could be a growth industry. Many religious-exempt seminaries seem to be doing this.

 

BillyDayson wrote :I'm not sure what a "spiritual life coach" is. It kind of sounds like "free-lance clergyman", which is ok with me. What do spiritual life coaches do? What do they need to learn? Where do they find employment?

The following quote is taken from an older version of UUHS's website:

"Life Coaching applies spiritual and metaphysical tools, philosophies, and resources to achieve goals and co-create one's reality. Spiritual coaching is not religion based. Clients (and coaches) are free to follow and practice any faith they want to. Spiritual coaching is about encouraging clients to follow their own hearts and tap into their divine guidance. The intention is to help clients connect with their higher self so they can fulfill their divine destiny.

Coaching is sacred work because there is a soul-to- soul connection with another human being. The coaching relationship is truly amazing---when the inner work is done, the outer shifts. As a result, clients experience more joy, love, happiness, and fulfillment. "

My Spiritual Life Coaching BA program was a mix of coaching, counseling, psychology, religion, sociology, natural health and communication courses.

In regards to employment for Spiritual Life Coaches most that I have met are self-employed. And some are Ministers who use their spiritual coach training as part of their interaction with their congregations.

I hope my reply has answered your questions.

Peace123

 

BillDayson,

It seems to me you disagree with my use of the word "authorized'.
(Maybe approved would have been a better word to use.)

In your opinion what would have been the correct word(s) to use?

Please note :If I had the ability to edit the title on my original post I would but I can't find away to do it .
It seems on this site are only allowed a short amount of time to make edits to your postings

Peace123

 

Yes. So as they say in the trades, "Measure twice. Cut once."