SCUPS Adds DBA and LLM

For the record, I noticed today that SCUPS has added back the DBA degree and also added the LLM degree, both of which had escaped my attention, so they may have been listed for several weeks. Wasn't the SCUPS DBA dropped a few years ago? It is interesting to see it back. Does this mean that there is a market for State-Approved DBA degrees? I know that California Pacific University has continued their DBA program uninterrupted.

Dave

 

I'm sure the market is there, which is why we see failed DETC applicants like SCUPS return to them so quickly. Note that CCU, when deferred by DETC (or whatever they call not selecting a school while they wait for the school to re-apply or go away), didn't bring back the doctorates. They must have known they would be successful with DETC eventually.

IIRC, Orion and Century were two others that failed at DETC and returned to awarding doctorates? (Although in Orion's case, not for long.)

 

Speaking of Century, I see they're back to claiming fake accreditation from ACI.

Also, they've stopped listing their faculty, requiring that you request a catalog to find out. What kind of school does that? (One with more than half their core faculty with Century doctorates, I suppose.)

No curricula are listed, just degrees awarded. That might mean something.

The rest of the site is a hoot, for all the wrong reasons.

 

That makes sense. SCUPS didn't drop their Psy.D. though, so I thought it might have been an effort to coordinate their offerings with NCU, which does offer a DBA, but I don't know all the underlying reasons.

I'm somewhat surprised that there still is demand for the State-Approved DBA degree, since I earned one from California Pacific University, and it has some practical utility, primarily in consulting, but little (possibly none) for higher education.

Dave

 

Ha! That is very interesting.

Abner

 

Rich, you always have this nasty attitude towards SCUPS. Why? What has that school ever done to you? Have you ever taken a course or courses with SCUPS? If, yes, please explain what you didn't like and what you did like. If no, how can you make personal statements about the school's programs or academic quality if you have never taken a course with them?

What are your personal or professional connections with this school that you know for a fact that it is not a good school? That is all I would like to know.

I am not going to get into an argument with you. I just want some cold hard facts from you that SCUPS is such a low quality school.

Robbie

 

The performance of the SCUPS College of Law can be readily evaluated using Calbar statistics. For 2003-2006, the General Bar was administered 52 times to SCUPS grads. There were 5 passing and 47 failing results. Furthermore, the 5 who did pass were all repeaters; none succeeded on the first try. So not terribly impressive.

Two of the successful candidates passed in July 2006, and the SCUPS home page still trumpets the fact: "Grads Pass CA Bar Exam". The fact that SCUPS regards this as newsworthy should tell you something. At most professional schools, it's not considered headline news when a graduate qualifies for a professional license.

 

Has SCUPS recently applied for DETC accreditation? Why were they denied?

 

Applied? Yes. Recently? No. Reason for denial? No one knows. DETC doesn't reveal such things. They don't even reject applicants. They just wait for the ones who are not accepted to withdraw.

 

Hey Steve: In response to your post, I have to rebutt by saying there are quite a few schools that don't make it on the first go around in accreditation. It is my opinion that the accrediting agencies should publish facts about why schools are denied accreditation or withdrew from accreditation review. If they apply again and withdraw or are denied, then I would be suspect of them.

Caldog: A lot of small schools do "trumpet" accomplishments of their graduates. Even large universities do the same thing. East Carolina University sends out quarterly news and post accomplishments of graduates and even ask for graduates to send in such news to be reported.

I haven't reviewed the stats on the Bar passes but will. In comparing SCUps to other schools in ratio of graduates who passed and those who didn't, how did SCUps fair?

Robbie

 

I looked at the stats. Surprisingly, there are some ABA approved law schools with not such a great pass rate when you take into consideration the schools are ABA accredited.

 

Sure, every school does that. But at accredited schools, it's normal and expected for professional graduates to get professional licenses, and so nobody gets excited about it. There's no banner headline at www.ecu.edu every time an MD grad gets a medical license, or an education major gets a teaching credential. At SCUPS, on the other hand, it's front-page news when a graduate actually succeeds in getting a license.

The ABA accredited schools are liable to go on ABA probation when their bar pass rates drop too low. For example, Whittier and Golden Gate currently have this problem.

Note also that for unaccredited California law schools (like SCUPS), the General Bar exam is not the whole story. Students at unaccredited schools have to pass a preliminary exam, the First Year Law Students Exam, before they can even reach the General Bar. The FYLSX is normally waived for students at accredited schools.

Many (most?) unaccredited law students actually flunk out at the preliminary FYLSX stage. During the past year, for example, the FYLSX was administered 19 times to SCUPS grads, and only 3 passed. If you consider the flunk rates on the FYSLX, in addition to those on the General Bar, then students at SCUPS and other unaccredited schools do far worse than even those at even the least successful ABA schools.

 

Robbie, re SCUPS: "What has that school ever done to you?"

John: I used to write books about distance learning schools. SCUPS took my write-up on them, rewrote it to make it much more favorable, set it in the same typeface as my book, and sent it to prospective students, claiming that it was in fact taken from Bears Guide. For good measure, they also rewrote my writeups on some of their competitors to make them less favorable, and sent that out as well. When they got a stern letter from my lawyer, they stopped doing this. In 30+ years of writing about thousands of schools--good, bad, and in between--no one else ever did this. That's what they did to me.

 

Wow, that is NOT good! I think that there are many better, and more affordable schools (such as Northwestern California University) that I would look toward long before enrolling in SCUPS.

To be fair though, how long ago did this happen? Is there any chance that those who were responsible for these horrible actions are no longer affiliated with the school?

 

Man, I don't know where to begin. You're all over the place. But here it goes....

First, I didn't say a thing about SCUPS's quality. Nothing. I just noted that they failed to get DETC accreditation. If you want to interpret that failure as a sign of low quality, fine. But I didn't say that.

Second, it isn't necessary to experience everything in life first-hand in order to have an opinion on it. Quality is easily observable through a variety of indicators besides personal experience. (Note that with any agency evaluating a school, its evaluators do not take courses to make their decisions.)

Third, I don't know what you mean by "personal statements." I guess all statements are "personal" if "personal" applies to the one doing the stating. If you mean that "personal" applied to the object of the statement, it would be hard to make a "personal" statement about SCUPS, a non-person.

Finally, the only other thing I noted was that SCUPS stopped its doctoral programs to prepare to apply for accreditation, then returned them after their failure. (In fact, I think the return of the doctoral programs was our first indicator that their application failed.)

No argument from me, just bewilderment. And a question. Such a response to my rather innocuous post is surprising, and would seem to indicate you have some connection with SCUPS. Is that true?

 

Hi Rich: Didn't intend to come across the way I did. My apologies. However, you have made lots of remarks in the past about SCUPS. And the statement, "...quick to bring back the doctorates..." creates a sense that you have a personal issue with the school. The school was not quick to bring the doctorates. I have no affiliation with SCUPS, but I do know a couple of individuals who have (one still is in process) taken courses with that school. From what I have seen in the school's requirements, there is quality and substanance to the psy d program. None of us know what happened with the accreditation issue at SCUPS. There are standards that have nothing to do with the actual quality of the programs that could be reasons why it did not work out.

Hello John B: Yes, I too would be pissed for a school using my work in the way you said they used yours. But, that was many many years ago. People, organizations, and things in general change. There is a whole different staff on board there and has been for several years now. To continue to hold a grudge against the administration there now is rediculous. If I recall correctly, many folks here were up in arms about CCU using a closed regionally accredited school's name and the cloak and dagger stuff that they were trying to pull. That was then, this is now. Don't hold on to something that is no longer an issue. Would you like the administration to change the name of the school to appease your hatred against the school's name?

You have done great things for distant education. But your past associations with suspect institutions of higher ed are not held against you. What if diginified professonials continually brought up the past on those issues? I know my opinion is not much or even worthless to you, but being in a dignified position that you hold, you should not let past issues prejudice your opinion on an administration that is not connected with what happened way back when. It comes across as being undignified.

Caldog: I graduated from ECU. They do in fact publish graduate accomplishments in the quarterly news letters sent via USMAIL. I will admit though, there should be more news posted than just someone getting a license or passing the bar under their news column.

Question now is, will SCUPS ever apply for accreditation again?

Now to our neutral corners. Rich was kind enough to give me his answers and I am very appreciative. Thank you Rich.

Robbie

 

They should do the following:

1. Get rid of the JD and all doctoral programs, temporarily, while they seek accreditation. Go for DETC. Once SCUPS is accredited, bring back the doctoral programs. SCUPS is stubborn and I understand why. The doctoral and JD programs are cash cows.

2. Overhaul course rigor and match it with NCU's assignment structure.

3. Study the business models of other DETC schools.

 

raristud2: you have a good point here.

Robbie