LBU and the KJV

I have just enrolled at LBU to do their M.DIV. I already have an M.A. in NT Greek from an accredited university, but I just wanted to do so more studies at an affordable, yet credible institutions. So I chose LBU after doing from investigation.

But it seems that I did not do enough. Because, believe it or not, I am somewhat disillusioned by their stance on the KJV only as a primary text, and they want all students to use it as their primary text.

I have done Textual Criticism and am about the point of withdrawing from LBU, but I would lose my $200.00 downpayment. Has anyone encountered what I have? How did you deal with it?

 

I am currently in the PHD program and am aware that they are strong on the KJV. I am using the NKJV to complete my class work.
I have not had a problem with them. I did however want to know if i would have to sign there doctrinal statement in order to graduate.They said i would not but i needed to know that the teaching i receive from LBU would be from the BBFI tradition.

Robert

 

Thank you Robert.

One of my mentors is Dr. Ray Anderson of the Fuller Theological Seminary. So I ran it by him and he gave me some wise counsel. So I am going to go ahead and do the program. I am glad to know that you have encountered no problem.

So how is your PhD work? Is it challenging enough? How do you plan to use it?

 

The course work is not difficult but it is time consuming. I am enjoying my studies very much.

As to how i am going to use the degree, i am not sure.

I am currently pastoring a church and teaching at a Bible institute
that does not require me to have a Dr.
So I suppose it is more for personal growth than anything else.

If i ever decide to pursue an accredited DR, i believe it could be used to help me
with entrance into another DR program.

Robert

 

I recommend you shop for another program before too much time elapses. I suggest this because you know from your Greek training that their insistence on KJV is counterproductive to the goal of producing MDiv graduates. This conflict will always be there for you no matter how much you respect the professors.

Dave

 

If they are true "KJV only" I would look elsewhere.

I would stay if they just want to standardize on one text although that is often an argument used by those who are "KJV only".

Also, I would stay if they take the argument that the Byzantine text is preferable because of the majority of manuscript evidence. I disagree and believe that the later dates of the Alexandrian text are preferable, however, their position is somewhat reasoned as oposed to the "KJV only" folks.

 

So I got into a discussion with one of their professors and I discovered that they favor the KJV because they think the Byzantine text is superior to the Alexandrian text. Well, for those of us who have done in form of Textual Criticism know that that is note so.

Even though the majority of the extant manuscripts are from the Byzantine family, quantity does not equal quality. Besides the multiplication of an inferior text means that there are more of the same. That was my argument to them.

But as I said before, I spoke to Dr. Ray Anderson of the Fuller Theological Seminary in Pasadena, CA, and he has given me some sound advice. So I will stay and do the program. Besides I only have to do 30hrs, 7courses and a 9hrs, 90 page thesis. Beyond my MA I did some graduate work, so they were able to accept them too.

Also, I spoke to the Dean of the Seminary at LBU and apparently they have soften their stance, because he told me that I could use another version. Now that was a welcome compromise.

 

I could live with their position. Zane Hodges who was a professor of New Testament at Dallas Theological Seminary held the same view. Have you considered Liberty or Luther Rice?

 

Yes, I have considered Liberty and Luther Rice. For some people accreditation is a factor, for others it is not. Liberty and Luther Rice are both exceptional institutions, but I do not think it is necessary for me to lean in their direction.

As a pastor, I am not required to have an MDIV, but I am doing it for personal reasons and to keep myself active in a sort of academic way.

A person needs to know what he or she is after. A spoke to another preacher friend of mine and he told me about a young man who was urged on by his professors to go on to one degree after the other. He was training for the ministry. Now he is not even in the ministry and he is paying back a student loan that is almost $100, 000.

A person must be guided by the Lord. The Spirit of the Lord has the final say. This is my firm conviction.

 

If you are convinced the Lord is leading you, don’t let me persuade you differently. However, if that is the case, why did you post to the discussion board? Keep in mind that the direction of our life can take drastic changes. At one time, I had plans for the ministry and went to an unaccredited Bible College as I saw myself as never doing anything else but the Pastorate. At the time, I was convinced it was God’s will. Now, I regret the decision as I am in another field and my educational opportunities are limited. For example, suppose down the road you felt led to teach as an adjunct in a seminary. an accredited MDiv would probably be a requirement.

 

What denomination are you, that you can be a pastor without an MDIV?

 

My original post had to do with LBU and the KJV. Because of a few responses which were begging the question of accreditation, so that is when I responded about accreditation.

Your point is well taken about what will happen down the road. As I said already, I have a BA and an MA that are accredited, but it is never my intention to criticize anyone who has an unaccredited degree. People go that route for a number of reasons, and I am not their judge. I respect their decisions.

And if we are not careful we can put more confidence in an accredited degree than we put in the person of God. There are scores of people God is using a mighty and wonderful ways to touch the lives of millions who do not have accredited degrees. And then there are those who have accredited degrees that are being used in other ways. Let us remember who really is in charge.

 

LBU

Pardon my ignorance...what or who is LBU? Where would one find info on this?

 

Louisiana Baptist University (official site)
Louisiana Baptist University (Wikipedia)

 

I was curious about this as well. The term pastor is sometimes taken to mean elder, presbyter, or shepherd instead of the denominational meaning of evangelist or minister. Is the MDiv optional for the original poster as a pastor in the NT usage or the denominational usage?

Dave

 

With all the editing and reduction of many of the NT books how can one decide and build a theology around interpretations, altered texts etc.
I'm very sceptical when it comes to one version of NT and will argue that KJV and New KJV are better than many others still
If I look at Alexandrian text than in Luke for example the wjole part when Saviour sweat in blood and the apostles fall as sleep is missing.
Was it removed or was it added in other versions, the same is for first 2 verses in John etc.

I have seen altered versions of NT and remarks of scribes to alter, change and edit parts of the text.

Some believe that without apostolic traditions the text really lost some of it message and not understood appropriately.

Are you familiar with works of Brooke Foss Westcott and Fenton John Anthony Hort?

Also Jeroms version of NT from 4th cent is an eye opening.


Learner

 

Insightful from the Learner,

Yes, I am familiar with the work of Westcott and Hort. I think these men should be applauded for their work. I think their approach to NT criticism was revolutionary. Remember, that before their effort with the Critical Text, the Western Text dominated.

Again, Textual Criticism is a human effort, so we must not be too dogmatic. When we consider the later scholarly work of guys like FF Bruce and Bruce Metzger, I see that we can strike a fair balance.

No doctrine of orthodoxy has been lost or weakened in the Alexandrian Text, on which most modern versions are based. I find, however, the history of the NIV to be fascinating. The translators opted for an Eclectic Text.

Yes, the Patristic writers add flavor to this discussion, and anyone who is schooled in Textual Criticism knows that we can almost reconstruct the entire NT from their writings. Again, the Alexandrian Text is in good standing, even here.

 

Dear Dave,

I am glad you pointed out the evolution of the term term since its NT usage. In a community church or independent church, it is optional for the "pastor" to have an MDIV.