Hypothetical question about CA State approved DBA.

Totally hypothetically:

Let’s say that I have a co-worker that just got promoted over me. We both have MBA’s from different schools with the same accreditation level.

I have very slightly more tenure, but otherwise we are a performance and qualification draw. The co-worker also has a DBA from California Pacific University (CPU), which was considered a slightly better differentiator than my one extra year of tenure in the same position, with the same performance.

The position does not require an advanced or terminal degree. I work in Florida, and this is a VP level position at a fortune 500 firm. We are the same sex, age, ethnic background, ...

CPU is state approved, but not accredited.

Could I have a legitimate HR grievance?

 

Hypothetical?

If an executive came into my office and asked me this, I'd need to know a bit more to be sure of his/her legal position but legal rights aside, I'd advise him/her to forget it.

Promotion decisions are not usually based on a close comparison of educational accomplishments. Rather, the employer will promote the person he (editorial) believes will give the best financial return to the company and stockholders. It is very unlikely that the decision was based on anything quantifiable.

If the executive really felt that she/he deserved the promotion and didn't get it, FOR ANY REASON, he/she should start looking for another job in another company.

If you're really that good, someone will hire you.

 

Right, but I was really looking for comment on the idea of a state approved degree being evaluated in the process.

This really is a Hypothetical.

 

I earned a California Pacific University (CPU) DBA, so I'll try to answer this... No, you don't have a case. The CPU DBA is a legally conferred doctorate that requires a normal amount of work at the doctoral level.

Your hypothetical co-worker is educated at a substantially higher level than you, having at least what could be considered an additional masters degree. The issue is not whether it is a doctorate but whether the co-worker is better prepared for whatever the new position requires.

The completion of the CPU DBA represents at least 125 quarter hours of post baccalaureate education, according to the 2003-2004 catalog I have here. Assuming you have an MBA that would satisfy 50 quarter hours to enter the program, you would take the following 13 "for credit" courses at CPU beyond your MBA:

Doctoral Orientation Course (No credit)
Statistical Methodology (5)
Business Research Methods (5)
Legal Environment of Business (5)
Economic Philosophy (5)
The Political Arena (5)
Computer Models in Management (5)
Organization Theory (5)
Management Theory and Application (5)
Operations and Production Management (5)
Management of Human Resources (5)
Consumer Behavior and Marketing Strategy (5)
Doctoral Project Proposal (5)
Doctoral Project (15)
Final Proctored Comprehensive Examination (No credit)

Total: 75 quarter hours (beyond MBA)

In sum, who is better prepared, ceterus paribus? The MBA with a CPU DBA or just an MBA? Obviously, the CPU DBA holder is better prepared all other things being equal, and should get the job.

Dave

 

Thanks for the reply. I have approached CPU about a DBA, and will probably start next month. I wanted to ask the question this way, to get a feel for what types of responses I may find, and how defendable a state approved degree may be.

This confirms my suspicion that I can accomplish my educational goals without detracting from my promote-ability.

I have the feeling that had I asked the question a different way, I may have been bombarded with RA or no way rhetoric.

Cool.

DEL

 

Test

 

SIMON: Not so fast my friend. You did mention this hypothetical scenario took place in Florida. Correct? Well according to Flordia statutes one CANNOT refer to themselves as "doctor" if they have a state approved degree from a state other than Florida unless it is RA, from a religious institution or a degree program specifically approved by the Florida Commission for Independent Education. A California state approved doctoral degree does not meet this criteria. Keep in mind that to disregard this statute, IF one gets "tagged", is considered a crime, a misdemeanor, punishable up to a year in prison!

http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm?mode=View%20Statutes&SubMenu=1&App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=doctoral+degrees&URL=CH0817/Sec567.HTM

 

Okay, interesting, and this is what I’m looking for, so in this scenario a grievance could be legitimate if the one applicant used the term Dr. on their resume during the evaluation..

First, thank you for finding this.

Second, I’ve read it and it is confusing, because it does say:

“(b) Provided, operated, and supported by a state government or any of its political subdivisions or by the Federal Government;”

Which CPU would be, as in California, correct? California supports it because it is in fact authorizing it to operate?

 

Also, am I to assume that from an interpretation of this reading, listing yourself as PHD, if you got the PHD instead of the DBA, is fine under all scenarios, it is reference to the term Dr. that is the misdemeanor??

Probably because they don’t want people claiming to be medical doctors…

 

Unfortunately not. California does not support or operate any of the school's under their aegis; it APPROVES them if they meet their criteria. Therefore, a doctorate from CCU or any other state school does not meet Florida's criteria for acceptance.

 

NO doctoral degree title can be used including DBA, IF it does not meet the specific guidelines indicated by the Florida State Statute.

The problem in part appears to revolve around the fact that for many years all sorts of questionable holders of doctorates representing many professions including medicine, law, psychology, etc were inundating Florida and misrepresenting themselves to the public (perhaps scamming would be a better term). This is a particular problem for Florida because it is the retirement capitol of America and many elders were being bilked by all sorts of questionable experts in myriad professions. The state needed to protect its citizens and this may be a partial explanation for this statute.

 

Ok, so in this case you could say that you have a PHD or DBA from CPU, and talk all about it, but not say that you are a PHD or Dr.

Seems like a lot of rules for a legitimate institution.

I will still probably pursue it, but it is good to know how to represent it.

 

You can interpret the statute anyway you wish and say whatever you want to an employer in Florida about the value of a California approved doctorate but the statute is very clear that to use ANY unaccredited degree in Florida is ILLEGAL. Once again, the statute states that "No person in the state shall claim, either orally or in writing, to possess an academic degree, as defined in s.1005.02, or the title associated with said degree, unless the person has, in fact awarded said degree from an institution that is........

 

How can we know CA approved degree turns to be illegal use in somewhere of USA or world wide? In fact, it itself, even unaccredited nationally, is legalized in CA to use the degree, if it is CA state approved!

Similarly, can Fiordia State licensed but unaccredited degrees be used legally in CA?

 

It is a possibility that the State of California could be one of the first states to seek recognized USDOE accreditation similar to New York State. Should that occur, and it still could be in the horizons, then we may find that a CA approved program would be considered accredited.

I have also heard that Colorado is another state that is seeking possible nationally recognition as well.

Just a possibility, and probably a much more inexpensive option that would allow the ind. States to obtain the fees etc, that probably would be much less than RA accreditors or even DETC etc.

Simply a theory.

 

There is no indication that California is pursuing the course of action you note above or even contemplating this direction. Nothing wrong with speculating but personally I prefer to deal with what is in the here and now! Simon

 

You should be fine if you list the DBA showing that it is CA State Approved and not regionally accredited. Moreover, you could list that you completed the doctoral program at California Pacific University stating what the institution is. Still, you could list the number of credit hours completed there. Some options.

Best wishes,

Dave

 

Nobody is trying to beat any system. You're forgetting that the doctorate is legally conferred in the State of California and is not being represented as an academic degree, so one could properly list the achievement on a resume, in my opinion.

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer.

Dave