States as accreditors

I just found out about a potentially significant change in federal law. Congress has, in the current committee draft in the House, as I understand it, quietly deleted the prohibition against states being accreditors. See proposed Title 20, Chapter 28, Subchapter IV, Part G, suppart 2, Sec. 1099b (a)(3)(B) The amendment strikes the grandfather date of Oct. 1, 1991.

Under current law state agencies can be recognized by the Secretary if they had Secretarial recognition prior to Oct. 1, 1991. Only one state entity, the New York State Board of Regents, met the grandfather provision. By striking the grandfather provision, any state agency would be eligible to seek recognition.

This change, if successful, would mean that states could apply to the Dept of Ed to become accreditors, and if successful (imagine the political pressure), could accredit schools that would then be Title IV financial aid eligible. Think Wyoming. Also, there would be huge pressure to accredit all those church basement schools.

Combine this with the parallel provision that would forbid any college from using type of accreditation to screen transferred credits. Suddenly it would be *illegal* for Harvard to screen out proposed transfer credits (all "A" of course) from Big Al's College of the Bayou, accredited by Alabama, without proving, course by course, that each course from Big Al was not good enough. In theory this is not objectionable. In practice it would be a horrendous mess.

There is fun on the political horizon.

 

Could states be trusted to be unbiased accreditors, since, after all, every one of the states has a dog in this fight?

 

Isn’t by law the education is states responsibility.

Even if this will happen, discrimination in accreditation is well ans alive.

Wile in the eyes of the law they are equal we all know that NA graduates don’t enjoy the same level of recognition as RA graduates and RA graduates don't enjoy the same level of recognitions and utility as RA + PA.

So will the SA, Wyoming SA will be legal but unacceptable, Universities will refuse to accept students with SA degrees.
Employers may discriminate as well.

We do, for some positions we hire only RA + PA degrees only.

But I have no issue with this, State Accrediting bodies will have to maintain a quality of accreditation.

After all some states are larger and have more money than some other countries and may even have better department of education than in some countries.

State by state - case by case.

I 100% approve of this move, so ODA will become an accreditor well in a way they are already kind of.

Learner

 

Based on the information being presented, wouldnt this mean that the individual states would be listed as recognized by the US department of education and thus, are alloted use of federal financial aid for any programs observed an approved by the state. If this is the case, then would NA or RA be just a additional form of accreditation?

My understanding is that if the US department of education recognizes that for instance I obtain a degree from a State approved school (if states are recognized by USDOE ) from say Colorado and I chose to apply for a position in a state like Oregon, would I still be holding a unnacredited degree in that state?

Please clarify as this is kind of a tricky subject to grasp.

 

d

I still don't understand is this good or bad?

 

Re: d

Very, very bad... but not so much because allowing each state to accredit isn't, conceptually, and in a perfect world, a potentially good idea; but, rather, because we don't actually live in a perfect world and... well... you know the rest. As a practical matter, this is not good. Oh, it could be, if it's done right. But it won't be, so it's not.

 

Good. I think it makes sense that any State should be able to petition the US DOE and be recognized as an accreditor if their standards qualify. The NY Board of Regents was recognized as such and then an arbitrary date disallowed others. So, either kick New York out or let other States in.

 

I concur as well. Why is NY so special to be the only state recognized by the US DOE. Other states should have the right to also exemplify their standards to be recognized as well.

 

Title IV

Think of the pull that $70B annually in Title IV funds will exert! Substandard schools with state licenses will exert all the influence they can to ram their lax states through the approval process.

 

Re: Title IV

Think of the pull Title IV has already had and why it has been so jealously guarded. Time to make things right. Substandard schools have little to no influence on the issue, by definition. Recognition standards by US DOE are clear and adherence to standards must be demonstrated.

 

Re: Title IV

I Asume states will charge for their accreditation services.

They may charge less than RA or NA to attract applicants and actually generate sufficient funds, all schools in the state have to be registered so they rase the charge.

How about per student.

so its fair, a school with 10000 students pay more than a school with 20 or 1000.

Learner

 

Hmm. Well... actually there might be something to that argument. Interesting.

Hmmm... again. See... there's something to this thinking. If the standards really are standard, then a state either meets them or it doesn't. That said, I'm not saying it's good yet. I'm just saying Kirkland makes some good points here... not surprisingly.

 

Re: Re: Title IV

Think of Wyoming and Alabama.

 

Considering that there could potentially be 50 of these new accreditors (51 if you count DC), the potential for confusion is going to be enormous.

If it happened, there would be two opposing forces at work:

First, a pressure on the weaker states to improve their state approval standards so as to be able to qualify.

And second, tremendous political pressure on the Dept. of Education to relax its standards so as not to slight politically powerful states.

So the net effect would probably be to pull up the Wyomings, while significantly weakening the Dept. of Education standards overall, if not on paper then at least in their real-life application.

Court ordered religious exemptions are the soft underbelly of state approval.

(I'm just speculatng, but I wonder if this proposd legislation isn't being pushed by the religious-right homechool crowd.)

I think that aspect of the proposed legislation is simply appalling.

If accreditation can no longer be used as a selection criterion in university admissions, and if transcripts from unknown schools can no longer be considered reliable, then universities will have to turn to something else to screen out the substandard schools.

I wouldn't be surprised to see them emphasizing things like university rankings or perhaps simply excluding all distance learning.

That's for sure.

 

What he said!

DI Newbies/New members, welcome!

Please note that USDoE/CHEA-recognized accreditation is good today and most probably will be, far into the foreseeable future, baring the unfortunate bill being bandied about, yes, by an unhealthy alliance of ethically-challenged substandard schools, sincere home-schooling families and their supporters in various legislatures and Congress, and shady DL entities with an eye on securing some of the $70B or more federal education dollars at stake.

Relentlessly seek out USDoE/CHEA-recognized accreditation or its GAAP/mGAAP equivalents.

Do not rely solely on the promise of state accreditation which may never happen, and even if it happens, may not be a n acceptable barometer for academic quality or widespread degree acceptance, at least as far as certain US states are concerned.

Not to impugn the integrity of citizens of the good state of Wyoming.......

Many Wyoming educators, legislators, officials and citizens are worried about the state's perceived worldwide image as a "diploma-mill-and-substandard-degree-haven" and are trying to do something positive about it. See here and here and here.

But, yes, think Wyoming ....

....... where some shady Wyoming-based DL entities arguably have a swooning effect on certain state legislators;

....... where some Wyoming state legislators are reported by the mass media, last year or so, to have enjoyed an all-expenses paid junket (bill was footed by susbstandard Preston U and others like it in the state), to Pakistan and Dubai to study and report on the wonderful "operating practices" of certain Wyoming-based DL schools!

....... where the state legislature, not too long ago, debated a promising and much-anticipated bill to require USDoE/CHEA-recognized accreditation from online DL schools operating in the state - only to have some of the junket-participating legislators kill said bill for all intents and purposes, by exempting (and grandfathering in) KW"U" and other substandard, unwonderful DL schools!

.......... state of Wyoming, where, if it ever attained state accreditation bestowing rights, may bless several unwonderful schools and entities with a state accreditation stamp not worth much more than the ink and paper used to print the diplomas that these substandard Wyoming-based DL schools issue for their quite easy-to-obtain "degrees."

Have 5 years (maybe less) of work experience?

Hey, you too, can obtain (Lawd forbid, never-to-be, Wyoming-accredited) KW"U" Ph.D. in 18 months! - by passing 4 open-book exams and completing one 150-page final paper (on any topic of your choosing).

You may not even have to read (much less study) any of your 4 textbooks. All you need is to be good at using the Index, Glossary and Table of Contents!

Don't believe me? Ask US Coast Guard Lt. Cmdr. Claudia Gelzer .

She testified under oath at Hon. Sen. Susan Collins' US Senate hearings on diploma mills , Washington, DC, May 2004).

Thanks.

 

Your statement above indicates the proposed bill is a scam. Do you have evidence or references to support this? Can you show where Wyoming's licensing standards (they don't approve or certify schools) could somehow be seriously considered for recognition as an accreditor by US DOE?

 

As I understand it, the State of Colorado wants to apply to become an accreditor. I know of no others yet.

There have been many sage comments in this chat. The end result, if something like this were to occur, is that a school accredited by Colorado would be accredited, period, and its degres would be valid in Oregon and in other states because the state would be federally recognized. We'd have Regional, National and State accreditors, all formally equal for Title IV purposes. Oregon accepts all federally recognized accreditors.

However, most RA schools would not accept the credits of a State accredited school without a course-by-course evaluation. They would instantly charge a fee for this, per course, sufficient to cover costs.

My essay on this subject will appear next week in the Inside Higher Education daily e-mail and web site. In the essay I will name the Seven Sorry Sisters - the states with the worst degree oversight.

 

No, not at all. Read my post again. I did not refer to or infer that the proposed bill is a "scam." My use of terms such as "unhealthy alliance" "sincere" and the "ethically-challenged" refer to some of the bill's proponents, not the bill itself.

Good, even desirable (and also undesirable), bills are sometimes advocated by a mish-mash of persons and interests, not all of them necessarily honorable but certainly not all dishonorable, either. That's politics. Nothing new here.


Thanks.

 

Cool!

I can't wait to read this article. Thanks for the heads-up.

 

Actually, I find this statement very curious, since here in the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico there are a ton of state licensed, unaccredited schools (including beauty culture schools), that are elegible for Title IV funds. And since only the financially disadvantaged are entitled to Title IV benefits, this will only make it posible for more people to get out of poverty. Aren't poor people in the Continental United States entitled to a hand-up, so we can stop giving them a hand-out as well.

This will be a wonderful thing. Finally, schools will not be able to arbitrarily deny credit were credit is due. We all know that most schools deny transfer credit to students in order to increase their profits.

I am pleasantly surprized that such an initiative comes from a conservative congress. This combined with the "no child left behind initiative" is exactly what is needed in order to help the most people realize the American Dream.

Good for Congress, I hope this one goes through.