not all accreditations are equal

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by Lerner, Aug 14, 2005.

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  1. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Our company hires engineers and the policy that is 90% enforced
    is to hire only ABET accredited degree holders - the leading authority on educational standards for the engineering and science professions.


    Internally it has been proven number of times that degree holders in engineering from ABET accredited programs have a level of knowledge and lab experiance Engineering expertise that others don't have.

    The damage new engineers make is low in comparison to graduates with engineering degrees from non ABET accredited programs.

    Many in the field of psychology will relay the same if APA accredited degrees have higher value.
    RA is very good mark of quality but we do make selection among RA and PA (ABET) degree holders.

    And this is justified by the additional requirements that ABET accredited schools have to meet and implement in their curriculum.

    Example

    Drexel University's College of Engineering - an internationally recognized leader in engineering education. It is the third largest private engineering college in the US, with numerous faculty recognitions, highly ranked programs and research accomplishments. Its curricula are accredited by ABET, the leading authority on educational standards for the engineering and science professions.

    The graduates from this program are head and sholders above many others, this is a fact in my company.

    is this discrimination to hire only ABET accredited degreed persons.

    Our adds are clear ABET accredited degree preferred.

    We discriminate all the time.

    Learner
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 14, 2005
  2. oxpecker

    oxpecker New Member

    Yes, it's "discrimination" in the lay sense of the word. Recruiting is all about "discriminating" between the few people you want to hire versus the many that apply. And "discrimination" in this sense is perfectly fine. There are only a few types of discrimination that are illegal -- e.g. discrimination based on race, sex, national origin, religion, disability where reasonable accommodation is possible, age (with limitations), etc.
     
  3. DesElms

    DesElms New Member

    Lerner,

    Didn't you make this exact same post over in this thread? That's cross-posting, and though I don't know if it's a violation of the TOS, it certainly ain't cool.

    Also, as I asked over in said other thread, how do you explain the sudden and miraculous improvement in your English as exhibited in this post?

    How many of you are using the "Lerner" username here? If more than one, I'm guessing that that is a TOS violation.

    I'm not saying you should be thrown outta' here for either thing, but it would sure be nice if you (and by that I mean all of you) would stop being so disingenuous.

    [sigh] Just when I thought I was starting to get to like you. :rolleyes:
     
  4. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Re: Re: not all accreditations are equal

    Well this is very simple, if I'm very tired them most likely I will make spelling errors and bad structured posts.

    All the posts are by me one person, no one has the password to this user name. As I answered before in some cases I copy and paste some of the materials, like for example I copied form drexels university site about their ABET accreditation.

    The cross posting was a spontanius thing, i posted reply to a tread and then it acured to me that this can be a tread by it self and that is very important to mention to the new students that there are defreces in accreditation and the professional life they may have after their DL adventure can be better if their degrees
    will have the highest level of recognition and accreditation.

    I did this for my older son who is in college now, and share this wisdom with the readers.

    So now you know, not I'm not Azad, and no there is no multiple learners only me :)

    And I don't post here for you to like me.

    but I do appriciate your concern, as in the past you will find that my post wile maybe confusing and not worded well is not negative

    Learner
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 15, 2005
  5. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Re: Re: Re: not all accreditations are equal

    ABET accreditation is assurance that a college or
    university program meets the quality standards
    established by the profession for which it prepares
    its students. For example, an accredited
    engineering program must meet the quality
    standards set by the engineering profession. An
    accredited computer science program must meet
    the quality standards set by the computing
    profession.
    HOW ARE THE QUALITY
    STANDARDS SET?
    The quality standards accreditation requires are set
    by the ABET professions themselves. This is made
    possible by the collaborative efforts of many
    different professional and technical societies.
    These societies and their members work together
    through ABET to develop the standards, and they
    provide the professionals who evaluate the
    programs to make sure they meet those
    standards.
    WHY IS ACCREDITATION
    IMPORTANT?
    Accreditation helps students and their parents
    choose quality college programs.
    Accreditation enables employers and graduate
    schools to recruit graduates they know
    are well-prepared.
    Accreditation is used by registration, licensure,
    and certification boards to screen applicants.
    Accreditation gives colleges and universities a
    structured mechanism to assess, evaluate, and
    improve the quality of their programs.

    ABET-ACCREDITED PROGRAM.
    ABET accreditation is a significant
    achievement. We have worked hard to ensure
    that our program meets the quality standards
    set by the profession. And, because it requires
    comprehensive, periodic evaluations, ABET
    accreditation demonstrates our continuing
    commitment to the quality of our program –
    both now and in the future.
    Our accreditation is important to the
    constituents we serve. It means that:
    Our students are ready to practice as soon as
    they graduate.
    Our local employers can count on our
    program graduates to meet their needs.
    The parents of our students can be proud of
    the education their sons and daughters
    receive and confident that their time and
    money were well spent.
    Our state licensure, certification, and
    registration boards know our graduates are
    prepared to enter the profession.
    The postgraduate institutions to which
    our students apply recognize our program
    for producing graduates with the skills and
    attributes required by the profession.
    Our institution supports our program and
    provides the resources needed to sustain it.
    YOU SHOULD BE PROUD TOO.
    When you choose an accredited program,
    you are choosing wisely. Accreditation
    assures that a program has met quality
    standards set by the profession. To
    employers, graduate schools, and
    licensure, certification, and registration
    boards, graduation from an accredited
    program signifies adequate preparation for
    entry into the profession. In fact, many of
    these groups require graduation
    from an accredited program as a minimum
    qualification.
    Be proud to choose an ABET-accredited
    program. Whether you study applied
    science, computing, engineering, or
    technology, ABET accreditation is an
    important indicator of your program’s
    commitment to quality and may be a key
    to your professional future.

    Learner - Ex ABET evaluator Sr Member IEEE
    RA is very good

    RA + ABET is 100 times better.
     
  6. Jake_A

    Jake_A New Member

    Le(a)rner, listen up, guy. Copying and pasting as liberally and as much as you say you do, sometimes or often without attribution, source-citing and giving credit to the original author(s), is called "plagiarism."

    "Noun 1. plagiarism - a piece of writing that has been copied from someone else and is presented as being your own work."
    Source: http://thefreedictionary.com


    It is not good practice and is generally frowned upon. You certainly do not want to do this in your studies (in academia) and certainly not in the business arena, unless you do not mind being expelled from legitimate schools - or being hauled into court for violating copyright and others' intellectual properties - or just plain disgraced and shunned.

    Then again - and I am not saying that you have or are doing this, but - one enrolled in a diploma mill or illegitimate or questionable unaccredited entity probably need not worry about being expelled or disgraced due to excessive plagiarism.

    Borrow ("copy and paste") from other sources in very small, insignificant amounts just to make a point that you have developed yourself. In any case and in all cases, ALWAYS prominently cite the source(s) of your borrowings.

    You probably know all of this so excuse me if I sound like I am preaching to you. Just friendly advice.

    Thanks.

    :)
     
  7. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Not a problem,
    In this case I'm still contribute to CEAA wich is responsible for IEEE's participation in the accreditation activities of the EAC of ABET and the CTAA is responsible for the IEEE's participation in the accreditation activities of the TAC of ABET.

    My last post was a copy from PDF broushure ABET provides to ABET accredited institutions for promotion.

    ABET will only thank me for that.
    So will the potentual students and parants.

    I appriciate your coments and will reduce this copying to minimum and will always site the sourse.

    Learner
     
  8. ashton

    ashton New Member

    national origin

    I've noticed there are many engineers working in the USA from foreign countries, and quite a few of these engineers have foreign degrees. I sure hope you accept foreign degrees from universities that are comparable in quality to ABET accredited US universities.

    Gerry Ashton PE (VT)
    BS EE USC
    MS EE Syracuse U.
    Member IEEE, a governing professional society of ABET
     
  9. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Re: national origin

    Hi Gerry
    This is the official stand of the ABET
    I'm pasting it here.

    In the United States of America, a license is required before an engineer may practice before the public. The licensure of engineers is the responsibility of each individual state, rather than the federal government. There is a licensing board in each state. Engineers who wish to obtain their license to practice must apply to the licensing board in the state in which they plan to practice. The qualification for licensure vary in each state. In order to become licensed, the applicant must meet the requirements of that state licensing board with respect to education and experience and by taking and passing the required NCEES examinations.

    If you have a BS degree engineering from a foreign country and are interested in seeking licensure as an engineer , our Board may require applicants to have your degree evaluated by the Engineering Credential Evaluation International (ECEI) organization to determine if the degree is equivalent to an ABET accredited degree.

    If you want information concerning the evaluation of your foreign engineering credentials, please contact the Engineering Credential Evaluation International (ECEI) at: www.ecei.org or the Accreditation Board for Engineering and Technology (ABET) at www.abet.org ECEI completes the evaluations for the ABET organization.

    Not all the states have uniform approach so this may apply to most of US States with some variations.

    Learner
     
  10. ashton

    ashton New Member

    I think Lerner is changing the subject a little. He began this thread by stating that his company usually would only hire engineers with ABET degrees. I replied that I hoped he (I should have said his company) would also hire engineers with foreign degrees from universities comparable in quality to ABET accredited universities.

    Lerner then replied with a post explaining how a person with a foreign degree could obtain an engineering license from a state board of engineering. I don't quite follow how the subject changed from fair hiring practices to licensure.

    I personally don't need to worry about it, since I have a job and an engineeing license (Vermont), and I don't have a foreign degree. I was just making a general comment about fairness; perhaps my motivation was all the fine foreign-born engineers I've worked with over the years.
     
  11. JamesK

    JamesK New Member

    Re: Re: national origin


    What about the Washington accord ?

    where
     
  12. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Re: Re: Re: national origin

    For example Russia is not in Washington Accord.
    Yet degrees accredited by REA (Russian version of ABET)
    Are recognized as ABET equivalent.

    There are other countries.
    Now WA recognizes the qualifications but the final dessision and examination is not exempt.

    i.e. one still have to take the exam.

    Learner
     
  13. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    My employer have a nice percentage of engineers from oversees.
    And to be hones I'm not sure how they evaluate their education,
    I will check and get back to you.

    I didn't properly understood your post earlier.

    One way to establish equivalency to ABET degrees is by using the agency I mentioned earlier.

    We have people with CEng and IEng, we have Israelis that are registered Engineers with pincas - lishkat mehandesim, I think one Irish guy and Ausralian on H1.
    A large group of India Software Engineers and developers.

    The once I worked with are very professional and above engineers.

    When I joined the company I didn't came as an Engineer but as IT person and no one asked to see my credentials, maybe they called ny University in former USSR, I know that thay did a very good backround check, including sample of my hair for drug sckreen.

    Learner
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 20, 2005
  14. DesElms

    DesElms New Member

    SOP.

    It's because one Lerner has trouble keeping up with what the other one has posted.

    :cool:
     
  15. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Are this restrained replies from Agent Gregg 1 or Agent Gregg 2.
    :)

    The Matrix land, Agents and Learners.

    You know I'm not that large when I flew today I notticed I acupy only one seat.
    I enjoy your emagination with a smile on my face.

    Learner.

    It took me some time I know you are a good guy.

    Sorry if not all of my posts comply with your logic.

    I have lots of good info for readers here.

    Dosvedaniya, Larevedery

    And yes Professional Accreditation with RA is the best credential in USA especially from good name school.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 20, 2005
  16. DesElms

    DesElms New Member

    I think I've hit a nerve... or two.
     
  17. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Yes, you did but in a good way.
    I enjoy the psychological aspect of this, and thanks to this site my emails at work improoved, I structure them better, who knows another 6 months comming here and I may be able to go to US school after all.

    Enjoy the weekend, I have gests and going to one of the better
    Russian deli store for some fresh pirozhky and vareniky, well a stolly to al do I prefer takila now:)
    there will be big and little Learners running arround and I need to feed them, especially my 19 year old Learner who completed his juniur year in college.

    Mss Learner ps take over I wile I'm in the store.

    Learner
     
  18. Or.... whatever it is that Azad and his kind eat.....
     
  19. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member

    Better add some Chinggis Khan vodka. I think they're coming back.
     
  20. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    His kind?

    A bit rasist aret we?

    I if you ment SRU people well their diet may change if the go to
    Istitution for a wile.

    As was speccified before Azad is some one else whom I never ever met.

    what they eat, I never been to India but here we have a fiew good Inda restorants and on lunch time the bufey is really good all the cury and the tandory chicken, I like their spices the food is unique.

    And if your degree in USA is not professionally accredited than its inferiur in the eyes of many, the programs are weeker and in some cases are good and to academic or to teoretical wich can be a good thing.

    Learner the head of t he Learners.
     

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