Conspiracy: How Medical Students Buy Degree's

FWD
LAFERNY
BING

This will be the discussion in case we all to expand on DL medical education, ok?

 

www.internetmedicalschool.homestead.com

 

Questions to cover

From the potential pot of fradulent, substandard medical schools, how many are actually selling degrees?

"In my posting, I am not saying any of the schools are substandard, nor am I saying they are fradulent, it's the correspondence of the home government to say this, not me."


(i) I think some may have acted in certain violations of laws and some of these schools may have low admissions standards, and some may have low passing standards...........but how many are actually fradulent? We have read in the news the problems some medical schools are having, like;

(i.i) Operating without the approval of the home government (appears was the case of the St. Luke School of Medicine, in Ghana and Liberia). 2) The other african school that was operating in Great England. 3) Giving advanced Credit to other Licensed Professional Group; i.e. Stomatologists, American Chiropractors, Doktors of Osteopathic Medicine, Nurse, etc...., which appears in Carib schools.......4) Schools operating under the license of other schools: "accreditation loans."

But my frengs, how many articles do we read from CNN or Google that actually deals with professional doctor mal-praxis from graduates from these schools? I am not speaking of the students in Nevada that were pretending to be doktors, this is another type of issue. I want to speak of the students that act professionally, have done their student-doktor training, have taken exams outside of there schools (PLAB / USMLE) and have passed them. How many bad reports do we have of these graduates...........and trust me, these peoples are in many country of the world; Ghana, Nigeria, UAE, Israel, USA, Canada, India..................................................; have we been made aware of say a high number of graduates from one specific school that are very stinky physicians?

Yes, sir!

 

for a conspiracy to work we need

FOR A FRAUDULENT MEDICAL SCHOOL TO WORK WE NEED:

1. We need the Government of "X" Place to be in co-hoots (sp?) with the school.

2. We need the School to decide; "I am going to be Fraudulent."

3. We need the students to be good guardians of the secret:

(i) They want to be part of fraudulent medical school.
(ii) They want to buy a degree while they sit in living room watching "Dancing with the Stars"

4. When the Basic Science part of the medical school is done; we then need:

(i) The Hospital to be in co-hoots to take these medical students with there Professional Doctors.

(ii) The Professional Doctors would need to be giving away free grades to these students of couch potatoes life. These MD's would be signing a paper saying: I was the Clinical Instructor of "x" , in Hospital "X", for "X" time. Student "X" rotated with me for "X" amount of weeks, were he/she demostrated 000% proficiency and final grade is High Pass/ Low Pass/ Fail.

Sign:_____________________
Dr. Fraud, MD
Specialist : Internal Medicine
Hospital "X"

When and if a medical student comes into a hospital and does not know the difference between: auscultation, palpation, percussion, or simple observation. How to take a history, how to explain a clinical case, how to take vitals, there is no way in hades that a professional will sign the student elegible to pass to the next level.

 

Bullet:

You may have hit the target! . Seems as though Bing and Dean Hughson, Bill Dayson and Dr. Bear would be the one's to discuss this topic with.

 

FWD

Why?

You have more posts on the topic than John Bear.

 

Re: FWD

Hey, I have an idea!!! Maybe you two guys can argue with each other for a while and everyone else will wonder why this thread was ever created! Sounds good to me!!!
Jack
(one good thing is that I learned that Dean has his own little website about medical degree mills)

 

good

Jack,


Good idea, took real thought. Thanks.

 

Re: good

No problem. I'm always willing to help in cases of dire need.
Jack

 

APN

Laferney,


What is this?

Advanced Practice RN

 

Bullet:

Maybe in this thread but Dr. Bear is the expert in the DL field. But I'll chime in with a joke once in a while!

 

Let's remember there are at least seven kinds of medical degree frauds going on out there.

1. Fake medical schools.

2. Real medical schools that also sell MDs out the back door (two large ones in the Domincan Republic that concentrated on American students were closed after an FBI investigation; there are more).

3. Real medical schools, where someone has accessed the computer and given someone a very-hard-to-trace medical degree. (This happened at the University of SouthernCalifornia at least once; are there more?)

4. People practicing medicine with a license that is not their own. A top level pediatrician in Berkeley was discovered doing this, for instance.

5. Counterfeiters, who provide degrees ostensibly from real universities. My very realistic Harvard MD in neurosurgery sold for $39.95.

6. Fake schools that don't even claim to be medical schools, but sell medical degrees. The huge University Degree Program run by Americans from Romania sold more than 200,000 degrees to Americans, and sold medical degrees for the first 5 of its eight years.

7. People who simply lie about having an MD, usually in small towns where hospital privileges are not important.

In 1985, Congressman Peppers Subcommittee on Fraud, which calculated there were 500,000 Americans using degrees they didn't earn, estimated that about 1% of these -- 5,000 people -- were practicing medicine.

 

7 big ones

Dr. Bear,

Seven big ones.

The idea here is to develop each one of the seven catagory for public knowledge and to focus on the new wave of acussations that the caribbean is full of fraudelent medical school, only because some offer ELP or credit to other health professional. No one expect you to do much work but if other knows about the seven catagories its nice to read of them.

 

To the poster above, an advanced practice nurse probably refers to a nurse practitioner, also commonly called an ARNP: advanced registered nurse practitioner. Although there is different licensing in many states, nurse practitioners and physicians assistants are roughly equivalent in the level of patient care they deliver, depending on specialty.

And I work in healthcare adminstration for a very large multi-specialty clinic. With the hiring background checks, credentialing, and independent contact we have with the medical schools and residency/fellowship sites, I would like to think that an imposter could not slip by. I would like to think this.

 

To Bullet

Laferney,


What is this?

Advanced Practice RN

APRN, BC
Advanced Practice Registered Nurse Board Certified (Psychiatric)
ia an RN with advanced graduate training. 2 years of supervised experience post Masters and passes a national certification test.
The function is similiar to what a psychiatrist does -can include prescribing and monitoring psychiatric meds, competency evals, psychotherapy and counseling, admit to psychiatric facility involuntarily when patient is a danger to self and others etc. Some teach and do research. Most states requre an advance practice license. In MA. it is called RN/PC (psychiatric clinician) Also sometimes called CNS Clinical Nurse Specialist.
There is a good report that describes the role at:
http://www.currentpsychiatry.com/
GO to Special Report:The role of advanced practice nurses. on left pdf file
Thanks for your interest in the role.

 

Mr. Lloyd,

I do not think that there are many - any - imposters slipping by on a mass scale from a recognized university.

Maybe the person does the impostering, using the name of the school?

Maybe a corrupt person with the office of the registrar helps?

People are buying fake degrees from real university, this is so.

But my original post was to look for the difference between what people are being told about caribbean medical schools that offer DL, not if there is a romanian company selling degrees, this is something very different.

 

I can see how someone might get by with a fake law degree and illegally obtained law license (though the latter might pose a bit of a problem) because you can fake law if you restrict your activities to a particular area you know well, such as maybe criminal defense for someone with a law enforcement background. (Indeed, I have my suspicions even here in southern New Mexico)

But MEDICINE?? How could anyone hope to get away with it? DENTISTRY would be even harder, I should think!

 

xactly

Nosbourne,


Right. On a mass scale this is very difficult.

 

For one to fake the possession of legitimate expertise or qualifications in medicine and dentistry in the advanced, high-technological, much-developed countries (MDCs) of the world, is as you state, mostly unthinkable, although it does happen at times, as we can all attest to, from occasional media and judicial reports.

However, in the less-developed countries (LDCs) of the world also referred to by some writers as The Third World, it, very sadly, happens much too frequently.

".... the risk and criminality of having a physician with a fake medical degree treating HIV/AIDS patients in Africa is not unimaginable anymore."

So states Mitiku Adisu of the Peabody College of Vanderbilt University, in a May 26, 2005 review of Ezell, Allen and Bear, John. (2005). Degree mills: The billion-dollar industry that has sold over a million fake diplomas. Amherst, New York: Prometheus Books. ISBN 1-59102-238-X.

I would posit that many bogus medical degree holders who purchase their fake degrees from here or abroad, be they native or expatriate, do eye the largely-illiterate, poorly-policed, little-to-no-regulation landscapes of LDCs (and far-flung and sparsely populated rural areas of MDCs) as lucrative markets in which to fraudulently practice medicine to make lots of (unearned) money.

Bodies like the UN's W.H.O., Physicians for Social Responsibility, and other non-governmental organizations (and some LDC governments, to their credit) are getting better and better at identifying, reporting, and penalizing these quacks and criminals, but there is a long way to go.

Unfortunately, medical (and other) quackeries, fakes, scams and immorality know no bounds or self-imposed limits.

Exposing and fighting fakes and quacks can literally be a life or death struggle.

For some unwitting patients, injury and sometimes, death at the hands of these illegitimate doctors, come long before exposure and containment of the con artists by the long arm of the law.

Thanks.

 

Re: Questions to cover

Many times for the FMG, in in the most remote islands, it is often a function of the rotations that they do here that make them poor physicians...or good physicians.

Many of these FMG's from the worst schools have to fend for themselves when they go out for rotations. They constantly have to move from city to city to get, or try to get, greenbooks. Some of these hospitals do the deals with these schools because it is a moneymaker for them and they need some help with free flunkee work. I'm talking like the more rural areas of the South, like Louisianna, or even Georgia. Some hospitals, like one up in CT that I know of, you will get your money's worth from that rotation in surgery. You will work your hind end off and learn.

Sometimes these rotations can be at the crappiest hospitals in ghetto areas, too. Many of the docs that will supervise them in the rotations in these areas will be foreign physicians practicing here...who barely speak English. This makes it more difficult for the student.

The rotations are ragtag and then they move on...or wait wait wait for another one to open up. Generally, you will get the better docs from SGU, Ross, or AUC, though. Saba does well, too. American students should try to get rotations in the UK...they get more experience there, but they will still have to do greenies here.

I hear that some of the docs teaching down in the islands have lost their licenses here. If that is the case then basically we have crap doctors teaching other doctors like crap. But, I think they are just babysitters at some schools. It's a place to be to take your labs and study on your own to pass the USMLE. At the big 3 you will work and your profs are going to be tough on you.

Once you get out of MD school you learn what you need to learn in your residency. That's where you actually learn your trade. You cannot be a slump and pass the USMLE, though. You have to know something. The test is just too hard. Many of the islanders don't pass the USMLE. Would be students need to ask about the pass rate before going down to any school.

I have seen excellent physicians from the islands and I have seen poor doctors from here. Let's face it, though. If you go to the islands for medical training you often don't have the grades to go to school here. That puts you in the non-brilliant category right away. HOWEVER, for many it might be that they are past the age where an American medical school would take them. They might be sharp as a tack but their age is being discriminated against in American schools. I know of one such doctor in Evansville. She was much older when she went and she seems to be an outstanding physician. I think she went to AUC.