Real VAE

General procedure:
-Development of a portfolio by the candidate
-Observation of the candidate in his/her work situation or in a simulated situation
- Interview/dialogue with a ‘jury’ – at the request of the jury or the candidate (comment: Interview an option?)
- Deliberation and decision from the jury based on the documents produced and their own observations.

Composition of the accreditation jury:
- The jury must be constituted and chaired in accordance with the general regulations and those for each type of qualification but one quarter of the membership must be qualified representatives of the occupational sector and half of these must be from the employers and half from the employees.
- The jury must have equal representation of men and women. - Staff of the company where the candidate is employed may not be part of the jury.
- Advisors who have helped the candidate put together his/her portfolio cannot be a member of the jury

Learner

 

I once dated a woman who did something that you do, Lerner. She used to start in the middle of her stories and thoughts and points. You do that... and it's maddening. And inconsiderate.

How 'bout some introduction. Tell us what you're thinking and why you've even made this posting. What we're supposed to get from it. And why.

As I have criticized of you before, precisely what is your point?

WARNING: VAE has been argued extensively here. Usually (not always, admittedly, but usually) the people to promote it are mill shills. Given the trouble you've had around here and the astonishingly impressive turn around you've exhibited; and how much happier people like me are that you've done so and that we don't have to argue with you anymore, are you really sure you want to broach this subject? Just askin'

 

My point is that VAE seems like a very demanding process.

Some entities state that they apply VAE.
Non of them follow the procedures as outlined in the laws.

So I posted some of the requirements that REAL VAE - (the title of this tread) requires and practiced by Universities such as University of Paris.

I was reading another post about ODA and Adam Smit was mentioned, I looked and found they apply VAE, then looked at VAE
- well some one posted on another site, so I made a post called Real VAE that is a very demanding process and not followed by this
who claim to use it.

In my opinon

Learner

 

Okay... so, then, what you're saying is -- and correct me if I'm wrong -- that VAE is legitimate and respectable when implemented the way its authors intended, right?

And dare I suggest, further, that you're saying it's been abused by the millish and, therefore, has gotten an undeserved bad rap?

And that if it were used as intended by its authors, it would be just as valid a means of assessment as any other; and that, therefore, we should respect it even though the reality of it because of those who have abused it is that it's actually unreliable, for all practical purposes?

Something like that?

So you're out to legitimize VAE, then, is that it?

I'm just tryin' to understand.

 

If this is the case, isn't it a waste of time? VAE is already a legitimate assessment process (when used appropriately). It does not require further legitimatization. What might be helpful would be a delineation of the legitimate VAE process so that it could be distinguished from the "less than wonderful" VAE process. Lerner has seemed to do some of this is his initial posting but since there is no citation or reference to the origin of his information it becomes difficult to be certain.

Hey Lerner! Where'd all that info come from?
Jack

 

At this time VAE is in my opinion some what similar to US portfolio assesment.

Wile Portfolio - may award credit not the whole degree

VAE allowing the award of a complete qualification on the basis of experience (not just some units from the qualification)

http://www.transfine.net/Results/Brno/7FranceSummary.doc

diploma mills ussually don't fulfil this portion of the VAE law.

These qualifications must be registered in a national list (Répertoire national des certifications professionnelles) established by a new State Commission (Commission nationale de certification professionnelle, CNCP).

I think we need to difrentiate between Qualification and Degree.
in some countries this are 2 separate codepended awards.
Usually degree needed for the Qualification.
Universities award qualifications as well as degrees.

Not many countries recognize degrees that are all experiece based.
More countries recognize I think qualifications based on experience in my opinion.


Learner

 

In some countries if a person states he is an Qualified Engineer than it is a Title or Qualification that automaticly meens that he has a degree in Engineering.
At the minimum it would be BS and today its MS.

One can't be an engineer without earning a degree in Engineering.

What VAE in my opinion states is that based on portfolio review of the qualified jury a person can earn a professional qualification
that meens the same as he has a degree.

4. All types of qualifications are affected :
 State diplomas
 Qualifications awarded by accredited organisations
 Professional/vocational certificates/diplomas awarded by professional organisations

These qualifications must be registered in a national list (Répertoire national des certifications professionnelles) established by a new State Commission (Commission nationale de certification professionnelle, CNCP).

In UK this is like NVQ 5 - National Vocational Qualification - State Diploma - that is equivalent to Bachelors degree.

NVQ 4 - AS degree etc. but actually its not the same as Bachelors degree from University and not viewed the same by the industry.

I may be off on this.
But this is how its sounds to me.

 

This may be true in some places but it's not true in the USA. I have personally known three men who started out as machinists and over the course of long careers, characterized by steady, incremental progress up the ladder, each one became an "Engineer." None of them had more than a high school diploma yet all of them worked for various HUGELY well known engineering/manufacturing corporations, ultimately supervising dozens of highly educated engineers. (I was the poorly educated but highly skilled welder in each of these companies).
Jack

 

USA is deferent, but I was talking about official title qialification a a state diploma.

In USA it would be PE license.

Or for example RN - usually AS or BS in nursing is required, so if a person has a qualification od RN we know they have a degree in Nursing etc.

My Soviet diploma of specialist is a qualification and equivalent to Masters degree.

So I ment a natio.nal diploma, not microsoft engineer - but State or National qualification, land surveyer, CPA, etc

Learner

 

OK, but engineers are not required to have a PE in order to be employed. So it's not really like an RN, where the license is a requirement for employment.
Jack

 

Well depends in wich state and type of employment.
By law a person can't offer engineering services without license.
In TX last year not only electronics or mechanical engineers had to change their titles to consultants, analysts etc, there was a successful letigation, including Software Engineers.

But I do see your point, Network Engineers, Microsoft Engineers etc. Yes engineering is not as protected as nursing.

Learner